Dr. Jesse Reimink: about rocks in her normal life with me that she probably doesn't need to in her free time as well. [00:01:00] But I was editing, um, Some of our podcasts, uh, I can't remember what it was a couple weeks ago, I was editing one of 'em, or re-listening back.

uh, footage. And she was like, wow, Chris really has a great voice for radio. And I, I said, I said, yeah, he does, but what do you think about me? And she goes, well, you don't really pronounce your words very, very well, so you could work on that.

Chris Bolhuis: Well, okay, so, hesitate to say this cuz I don't want to give Dr. Reme a complex, but [00:01:30] Jenny thinks you sound a little bit like Kermit the Frog. like

Dr. Jesse Reimink: Kermit the Frog. a really funny one. Wow. I have never heard that before. I am gonna, I'm, I'm gonna,

get a bit of a complex about that. I think

Chris Bolhuis: Well, I'm, sorry I didn't, I I don't wanna do that cuz now we don't need that. But, you remember when Mrs. White had her AP environmental class listened to our plate tectonics episode And give us questions. They also did a vote [00:02:00] and you had the better radio voice, remember?

Dr. Jesse Reimink: true.

And

Chris Bolhuis: That's true. So hang your head.

Dr. Jesse Reimink: But apparently I sound too much like current the frog, and I need to enunciate my words a little bit better apparently.

So I'm gonna work on that. We're a work in progress, Chris, aren't we? At the end of

the day, we're

Chris Bolhuis: We, we are.

Dr. Jesse Reimink: trying to continually improve. Hey, so this week's episode was, uh, is a fun one.

really cool, this was, I don't know, an honor and a privilege and really fun to do [00:02:30] and

yeah,

Chris Bolhuis: Well set the stage. What? What do we got going on? What happened? Just say it.

Dr. Jesse Reimink: so, we were invited to give a seminar by the a a g, the American Association of Petroleum Geologists, student chapter from Grand Valley State University, which is Chris your alma mater. And we were invited to go there and, and sort of, I don't know, give an hour long discussion seminar where we talk about a variety of things, mainly focused on this podcast and the origin of this podcast with, with you and I, [00:03:00] and. This was super, super fun. We did this

Chris Bolhuis: yeah, let me interrupt you. It was a lot of fun. Uh, you and I had no idea what to expect. We get there and they have two comfortable chairs sitting up on top of a stage, and, and a little cute little table in between us. And it was very quaint, you know, and then there's this auditorium in front of us and, a lot of people showed up.

It was really cool.

Dr. Jesse Reimink: Took some great questions from the audience and [00:03:30] kind of talked about the origin story, which Chris, I, I'm just, I was recognizing this. As we were doing it is that we never really talked about this in, uh, the podcast forum. Like, how did we start this podcast? Why did we start this podcast?

What's the origin story? And that all came out in the question and answer period,

uh,

of, of the seminar that we held. So, Chris, let me just, I, I want to for the, for the listener here, the audio's not as great as you're normally used to. Like our audio's improved a lot since we started, uh, this [00:04:00] podcast.

It's not quite as great. The room, there's a lot of room audio there, so you'll just have to bear with us on that for this episode. But Chris, I wanna know from you, what was it like doing this at your alma mater? I mean, it was cool for me to go there, but you went to school there, you, this is where.

Really learned Geology and got turned on by

Geology.

Chris Bolhuis: right. I have a very soft place in my heart for Grand Valley and especially the Geology.

department. They treated me so well when I was there, they [00:04:30] nurtured my curiosity. It was just the best experience I could ever imagine. And then to be asked to come back and, and do this was very cool. Of course, only one of the professors. Taught me was in the audience. but there were many professors in the audience that I have a very close relationship with today. And then of course, many of my former students, many people that I know. It was just a very cool experience for [00:05:00] me. It was, it was special. this was. One of my favorite things to do because you and I got to spend time together, you know, face-to-face, and that's so much better than always talking on the phone or on Zoom and, you know, getting to talk about this thing that we're so passionate about at this place that I am so passionate about was very cool.

And then to get to, you know, afterwards, you know, they invited us to go out and have a, have a beer and eat some [00:05:30] pizza and just.

know, just talk. it was a great experience. I loved It

Dr. Jesse Reimink: It was great. It was totally great. And I, and, um, yeah, I would imagine a big honor to, to sort of be invited back to the place we, you're an alumni of and, and, you know, have a, still have a close relationship with, so, totally. Cool. Um, I think Chris, we should just get to it, but, the ha first half of this discussion is really Chris, you and I talking about the origin story, a little bit about our personal origins in Geology, which we've covered on this podcast before.

Uh, but, but kind of cover it in a little bit more detail. And then [00:06:00] there's a question and answer period, which I was actually very impressed by the depth and,

um,

the depth and level of questions that

people asked. So some of 'em were harder to answer than others, I'll be honest.

But

Chris Bolhuis: that's right. And the, The degree to which the questions varied. Um, it, it, there was nothing that was off limits and that was kind of a cool thing too. It, it switches directions many, many

times. I thought that part was fun cuz we didn't know what we're , you know, what was gonna come our way.

but again, [00:06:30] I would just wanted to reiterate this to please excuse some of the audio. It's not as good as what we're used to putting out, but we thought that this was important, so here you go.

Dr. Jesse Reimink: Absolutely. Planet Geo Live coming.

Backgound: Thanks [00:07:00] Lauren.

Chris Bolhuis: Lauren, is that the first time you've called me

Chris?

Listener Question: Yeah. Wasn't that good?

Chris Bolhuis: I know. How'd it feel? That feel okay?

Listener Question: Never again.

Dr. Jesse Reimink: Okay.

All. I still struggle with Mr. Boys. No, you

Chris Bolhuis: don't. No, you don't. That's true.

I guess I'll go ahead and get

started.

like Lauren said, my name is Chris. I actually am a G V S U alum. I graduated with a degree in Geology in 1994. Um, and one of my favorite professors is still in the [00:07:30] room here, Dr. Kevin Cole. so.

Um, came about where I am, uh, in a, I suppose an unconventional way. I did not go the earth science route. I went, you know, straight up Geology. I graduated and I moved out. I got married and moved out to

Oregon to work. and then, just worked out that my wife

needed to be a little bit closer to home. So we

moved back to Hudsonville, where we're from, and

that's when I decided to turn

things around. And, uh, I still wanted to

[00:08:00] do, geoscience. I wanted to be in that field. I, I knew that was not ever gonna be,

um, you know, I, I was always gonna do that. Um, but I wasn't sure what I wanted to do.

And so then teaching popped into my head. And, so I went back and got

my earth science degree. It was two more years of school, had to do some more chemistry and, some earth science

things.

And, in looking back, I mean, it was, it was definitely the long road

for me but

I wouldn't want to trade that for anything cuz I had to do all the hard stuff. I had to go to

field camp, I had to take [00:08:30] structure and said Strat and all

this stuff that, that the earth science, majors didn't have to take. And I just feel like that made me so much, better equipped to do my job. So I started off, teaching earth science and then, and chemistry and as soon as I could shovel off the chemistry I did. And my quickest avenue for getting rid of the chemistry was starting up a Geology course. and so our philosophy at at Hudsonville was always, if you can fill it, then you can teach it. So I proposed a [00:09:00] course, proposed a budget, and um, I got enough, I got the bare minimum to sign up for that class. There were 12 kids in my first section of it ever. And um, what year was that, Chris? That was nine. No, that was 2001, I think. Steve, is that, is that right? It was either 2000 or two thou. I think it was 2000. =Yeah. And anyway, um, I patterned the class after physical Geology here at Grand Valley. And so my kids at the time, my [00:09:30] 12, my original 12 were,

Listener Question: they

Chris Bolhuis: griping a little bit about how hard it was and, and so they asked, why isn't this ap? And, and I, I'd never really thought about it. And so I did not know Dr. Maddox at the time. Uh, and I, I think I called Kevin in, in a roundabout sort of

way. Kevin put me in touch with Steve Maddox.

And so

Listener Question: we

Chris Bolhuis: just got to talking

and it just kind of led

to this relationship that has gone a long ways and for a long

time.[00:10:00]

Listener Question: um,

Chris Bolhuis: which has kind of evolved

into, uh, uh, many high school kids in the state of Michigan being able to get college

credit for taking this Geology course. and so that's how it started with me and that's how I big moved into just full-time

geoscience education, you know, getting rid of the

chemistry. Um, and then recently, two in the last five years, I've

also, uh, started an astronomy course. So, I have a good job. have a really good job. Yeah.

Dr. Jesse Reimink: okay. I'm Jesse Reich. Uh, as Lauren said, I graduated from Hudsonville High School, [00:10:30] had Chris for Earth Science in ninth grade. Geology the Geology class as an 11th grade, I believe. Then went on a summer science trip that basically when you teach at it's field, Geology, the only science that's really covered. So I forgot to mention that course . and, uh, and then I did, uh, independent study with Chris, but then I, um, went to Hope College. Got a Geology degree there, Geology, major Biology minor, bachelor of science. Then I, had dreams of doing something else for a couple years and but that didn't work out.

And so I worked in

[00:11:00] a vice manufacturing plant for a year and did It's some substitute teaching. Realized I did not super, like babysitting ninth graders, . Uh, and so then I went to grad school. So I went to grad school at the University of Alberta at Edmonton, Canada, mainly because I didn't get into, more name brand schools. But it was good that I went there. I started

in a master's and then transferred into a PhD, was before completing the master's program. And I, really into

research. I always kind of liked metamorphic ig, [00:11:30] igneous rocks, the hard rocks, the pretty rocks, the interesting rocks, I think. Um, those of you study soils. I pity you very much , but, um, I was like, metamorphic rocks and igneous rocks. So I got to do some pretty cool field work in remote northern Canada, and that really hooked me. And so I decided to, to stay for PhD there. So I was living in Edmonton for five and five and a bit years. I was a little bit over five years, but, doing a PhD. Uh, graduated in 2015 with a PhD and I started working at a nonprofit [00:12:00] research institute as what's called a post-doctoral scholar. And, uh, the postdoc position, uh, just as a little bit of background is really if you're interested in the, in a research, a research heavy track, um, you typically do a PhD, which is your thesis, but you're sort of under some sort of supervision by a faculty member. and then a postdoc is really a time when you are meant to go out on your own a little bit more, experiment with your own research initiatives, raise your own money to do research. kind of lead your own, lead [00:12:30] yourself really. and so I did that for four years. I did it for four years, mainly because I didn't get any of the jobs I applied to during that four year period. Applied to every faculty position, I, I really could and, and thought that would be interesting. And then

Listener Question: in

Dr. Jesse Reimink: about 2018, just so I was, I was sort of running out of money to keep doing the post. These post-doc positions are kind of temporary gigs, so it's like, you know, one or two or maybe three years of funding and you kind of go contract to contract with that. right at the end, as I was running outta money, I got a job at Penn State, so I was lucky enough [00:13:00] to get offered a job there. So I started there in 2019, in August of 2019. So I'm just finishing year four coming up on year four. there and, terminology, if you're not familiar, assistant professor, Basically a non-tenured professor, you're on the, on the path towards getting tenured, but you're not tenured yet. And at Penn State, that's a six year process to get tenured. And then you become what's called an associate professor. And then there's one more, know, step up to becoming a full professor after that. So these are the kind of, sort of benchmarks along the way. So since 2019, [00:13:30] I've been an assistant professor. my research, I continue to like the old beautiful metamorphic rocks. Uh, I study kind of broadly continent formation. When did continents form? I look at really old, very tortured rocks with a lot of geochemical techniques. Um, and at Penn State I've set up a geochronology lab facility. So I kind of mainly manage a

Listener Question: research group.

Dr. Jesse Reimink: Uh, I've got a lab manager, a postdoc, three PhD students, one master's student. Just finished probably four undergrads. Um, all kind of working the lab group. [00:14:00] So, That's a lot of people to keep track of. And I mainly fundraise and then make sure I'm not dropping the ball. They mostly keep me in line, really is what happens. But we do geo chronology, so we date minerals, date rocks, and look at geochemical signatures to figure out when rocks form 'em. So is that it? I think that's it.

Chris Bolhuis: I'm, that was a long answer right there. Yeah. so I, the, I think the next thing that we're gonna talk about is, Planet Geo. we've been doing this for three going on, it's been in the works for three years now. So [00:14:30] can give the backstory in it. It was really his idea, but he calls me out of the blue. This was right when the shutdowns happened and right at the beginning of Covid. I think everybody that has ever thought about starting a podcast started it at that time. Um, it was not the best time to really start this, this process, lots of competition. Anyway, he calls me and that's all he says. Chris,

Listener Question: what do

Chris Bolhuis: do you think about doing a podcast with me? And I, I didn't even know where to [00:15:00] begin answering that question. Um, so I started with the first thing, and Andrew,

Dr. Jesse Reimink: Chris is old, so he said, what's a podcast? ?

Backgound: You know,

Listener Question: So

Chris Bolhuis: my, the first question that popped into my head is, Jesse, well, this is not really a question, this is more of a statement, Jesse. You are notorious for not replying to phone calls, not picking up phone calls. You don't answer texts for two weeks. And I said, if I'm even gonna think about doing a [00:15:30] project like this with you, I need 100% access to you. You better take my calls. You better answer my texts. And he was like, he was shocked

Listener Question: by

Chris Bolhuis: this. He he was completely hurt. He was hurt by it, actually. Um, and I actually said, if you think I'm off, then you need to call Andrew. Andrew. Back me up a hundred percent. Cuz we've had lots of conversations over this.

Listener Question: and so

Chris Bolhuis: that's kind of Howard s that's my backstory. Anna. Well why don't you go ahead and give your thought process on that,

Dr. Jesse Reimink: uh, . Yeah. Well, um, [00:16:00] the lead up I guess starts with a little bit, go back a bit further. So I was a high school student

Listener Question: in

Dr. Jesse Reimink: 2001 to 2005, so I don't know how old you were when you were a

Listener Question: a, At that stage,

Dr. Jesse Reimink: 30, 30 thirties. Okay. So I like after college or near the end of college, we kind of became friends. Um, and Chris has always been a l you know, a mentor in the geoscience. Yeah. Lots of rock collecting trips and things like that. Yeah. Lots of rock collector trips, camping, uh, have a a, a beer or two perhaps. and [00:16:30] so we became friends and then when I was in grad school, whenever I would come back to Michigan, we'd hang out or get together. so we kind of, we had this relationship and I was talking to,

Listener Question: well,

Dr. Jesse Reimink: we've had many conversations about how Geology or geoscience is really undervalued by society. You know, biology, people kind of know what biologists do, or physicists. They have some idea of what an astronomer does in their day job, or at least some idealized version . I would go around Michigan here, and I'm sure many of you have similar experiences, like you say, I'm a geologist, or I'm [00:17:00] getting a Geology degree at. And people would say, well, what the f are you gonna do? Are you just gonna look at rocks all day? Right. And uh, when I went to Canada, in Canada, there's a huge mining and, uh, oil and gas industry. So I'd say I'm a geologist and people would just say, oh, cool. And then move on to the next topic, which I found kind of refreshing that geoscience is kind of in the public, mind. And we'd had many a rant about how, in the US especially geoscience is kind of undervalued. Now that's changing. And maybe your generation

Listener Question: is

Dr. Jesse Reimink: much better at that with climate [00:17:30] change being so in the public eye. But, I've lost my train now. Okay, now the podcast. Okay. Yes, we're back. so what had happened was two things really. my sister had started a podcast before Covid actually, and she had been talking with like her friend, an older mentor, like much older mentor. Kinda like Chris and I like 40 years in between us, basically. Easy, easy. Um, so wow. They had, um, they'd started podcast and it was like, oh, it was a relationship driven thing. But then I was talking to my best friend from graduate school who's very smart [00:18:00] and he was saying that the only podcast he listens to at all is two guys who their high school friends and all they do is review movies and they're not movie critics, but they

Listener Question: just

Dr. Jesse Reimink: to each other. And he was like, the interesting part for me is the relationship. I feel like I'm part of their relationship. And so that was kind of like, okay, well Chris is extremely passionate about geoscience and very good at explaining it. Very good teacher. We have a relationship, maybe that's like a good idea for a podcast. and there's no Geology [00:18:30] podcast out there or really geoscience podcast that at the time was, searchable on Apple Podcasts, for instance, or, you know, really came up in any search terms. So that was kind of the thought process behind it was, okay, Chris.

Listener Question: You're a

Dr. Jesse Reimink: a great educator. You're

Listener Question: technology,

Dr. Jesse Reimink: so how about I sort out the technology and, sort of leverage your talent into this podcast thing. So that's kind of the, the backstory to that conversation. Yeah, that's

Listener Question: the

basics.

Dr. Jesse Reimink: Yeah,

Chris Bolhuis: I think so. Um, you know, and

this has been a struggle for [00:19:00] me throughout my entire career,

to keep geoscience

Listener Question: in the

Chris Bolhuis: the high school level. At the high school level. you know, it, it happens and I have a fight on my hands for a, a, a number of years, and then it goes away for a number of years, and then it comes back again. I feel like it's rearing its head again. And, um, it's something that I don't understand. we only have this one planet. The more we know about it, the better we are, we're equipped to take care of it. And that's what geoscience is all about. You know, how can this not be [00:19:30] something that is, is valued or, you know, it it should be overvalued. we just don't understand that. And that, that's the litmus test that we run by for our podcast. Alright. Is this, is this something that's important Yeah. you know, I try to keep, I try to keep, uh, my mom in mind. My mom knows nothing about Geology. Um, she wasn't even listening to my podcast. I found this out like two months ago. My mom was not listening to my podcast. I walk in, I try to go over there every Friday and visit with 'em for an hour or two. [00:20:00] And my mom is sleeping and my podcast is playing like the heck. Her name is Joyce. I'm like, mom, what are you, what are you doing? You know? And, and so I I, I said, I've given you shout outs on the podcast. I've, I've talked about you, Joyce, she says, I haven't heard any of that. I'm like, cuz you're not listening. but we try to keep my mom in mind when we're, we're explaining things. We don't do a very good job of that. but that is the goal, like for, for us to like teach about [00:20:30] this planet on a level that can be understood by many rather than by the few. That's, that's our objective.

Dr. Jesse Reimink: So I think that's a good, I mean, and then probably all of you in this room who are. Interested in Geology or professors in Geology of some kind. I mean, it's like, uh, you, you probably experienced the, the flip side of saying of people saying, oh, what are you gonna do with your life? Look at rocks, is that the other half of the people say, oh, that's really weird, or That's really interesting. Like, tell me more about that. Right. Like it's, it [00:21:00] is a, different thing, especially in a place like Michigan where geoscience industry is not massive. so I think that's something we've uh, discovered throughout this process maybe, is that there are a lot of people who are, for whatever reason, they like collecting minerals Or they took the one Geology class in college back in the day and our business majors or something and run a business. Now they, but they kinda liked the class. There's a lot of like curiosity around the geosciences. and like you mentioned, the sort of climate change and sustainability issues have. reposition for [00:21:30] sure Geoscience Center. Also,

Chris Bolhuis: when we, when we started this, big talking about the podcast, I, I asked Jesse, I said, so do you have an answer to the question? Why is Geology important? Why is this important? And I know there are a lot of students in here, and I'm really speaking to you when I say this as, as somebody that's interested in Geology, you, you really need to have a good answer

Listener Question: to that. You

Chris Bolhuis: why is this important? And I struggled with that when I first started teaching because it's kind of [00:22:00] ingrained, chemistry is important, physics is important. Biology's important. Geoscience is, is kind of, you know, taking a back seat. And that's always been my impression and perception of this. And it took me a while. But, I've got an answer

Listener Question: for

Chris Bolhuis: that.

Listener Question: circumstances are

Chris Bolhuis: are different every time I get the question, but it's just something that I think that anyone that is passionate about geoscience and, and, and keeping this open to the masses needs to really have a, a well thought out answer[00:22:30]

Dr. Jesse Reimink: Yeah. I maybe that's a good time to sort of ask, open it up for any questions at that stage. We have some more stuff uh, but you do, I are there. Do you guys, anybody have any questions

Listener Question: this stage?

Dr. Jesse Reimink: Anything at all related to geoscience or us or Yeah, go

Backgound: for it.

Listener Question: So I kind of I kind of want to get, I'll backtrack to when you said, uh, the kind of the many. I'm hoping that many understand geoscience rather than the few. But do you and this and this kind of goes back also to you being a high school teacher with kind of [00:23:00] a traditional Geology degree. Do you ever find yourself, having to almost bite your tongue or you find that you have to oversimplify and just for the many to understand? Or do you try to really, hopefully that they can, um, kind of come back to it to understand, like for the high school kids, I can understand how they, you can get back to them, but when, you know, as a science communicator, if you're only gonna see them once, you have to sometimes find that you're [00:23:30] oversimplifying a

Chris Bolhuis: Right. Thank you for that question. Um, great. question. It's a great question. So I teach several different classes. I, I have an earth science class for freshman. My curriculum is different than my Geology class, which I'm the only one that teaches my Geology class. So I can do what?

Listener Question: I

Chris Bolhuis: I can make it as easier, as more, as difficult as I, as I want to do. And I, I pattern it my own education at Grand Valley and, and talking with, you know, Steve Maddox has written the exam. So everything I do in my Geology [00:24:00] class is for that. So Earth sciences for freshman, they're 14, 15 year old, students, my Geology class are juniors and seniors, so they're 16 to 18 years old. So I would say the only reason I would ever water something down is, is that a fair way of characterizing it? It would be because, a time standpoint because with my earth science I have to get through some things cuz there are five other people that teach that same class. and so I have to keep up, [00:24:30] if you will, with, whereas with my Geology class, if I think it's important and, and I'm feeding off the students that are in the class and they're asking questions. I'm not gonna water anything down. I'm a firm believer in analogies and, and so I laughing. I use analogies a lot in class to simplify it so that then I can go deeper into the, weeds, I guess. So I don't water things down much in my Geology class. I don't bite my tongue hardly [00:25:00] ever.

Listener Question: Cool. So do you ever you ever find like students coming back to you, not, I guess I should say, like within the same year even and being like, oh, I, I understand that concept more cuz maybe you led them to, uh, read something it or

Chris Bolhuis: I, I think so. I don't know how to answer that. Um, in my GE class I get a lot of juniors,

Mostly juniors.

And then in my astronomy class, I, it's only

seniors

Listener Question: And

so,

Chris Bolhuis: I get a lot of the repeat customers, if you will, [00:25:30] I guess I get some of that. and for sure on the, in the field course out west that

Listener Question: teach,

Chris Bolhuis: there's a lot of, oh, this is what we were talking about in a class and now we're sitting in the best class on the planet outside. I get it. I can see it. So yeah, there's that for sure.

Listener Question: Thanks. Thank

Dr. Jesse Reimink: you. That's a great question. I mean, just to sort of, um, tag along on that I guess is I, that's something I've learned a lot from [00:26:00] Chris, is how to stay out of the weeds or to simplify it. Like a lot of Geology concepts are really complicated. Uh, you know, the. it takes a lot to understand, you know, silicate, weathering, you know, to draw down, right? Like you gotta cover a whole bunch of basic concepts to get to a point where you can talk about that nuanced, very nuanced conversation. But there are good ways to kind of cover the bases to get the main concept without getting lost, in the weeds. And I tend towards being in the weeds and Chris is quite good at [00:26:30] staying out of the weeds. Uh, so it's always a, a balance. It is a tug Push and pull. Yeah. argues we break, we break up every once in a while about it, and then

Listener Question: We

Dr. Jesse Reimink: have

almost broken up

Chris Bolhuis: several times.

Dr. Jesse Reimink: Yeah. So,

Listener Question: some of us are graduating soon and uh, maybe don't have things lined up for next year and are are kind of looking at a year? Uh, Uh, what are the advantages or disadvantages to not going straight into grad school if that's what we [00:27:00] ultimately want to do?

Dr. Jesse Reimink: Gap years are great. I think gap years are an awesome thing at

Listener Question: statements. I think

Dr. Jesse Reimink: okay, there's so many different aspects to this, but I think gap years are great. Uh, no matter kind of what you're doing, as long as you've thought through what you're doing, like, you know, you don't have to even work in geoscience necessarily to make your, sort of, your resume or your application stronger to graduate school if that. If you're worried about, you know, what your application looks like,

Listener Question: Do

Dr. Jesse Reimink: do something that you are [00:27:30] passionate about and do something you know, Don't sit at home, do something and be able to clearly articulate why you did that something. And it does hasn't, doesn't have to.

Listener Question: With when

Dr. Jesse Reimink: When I'm looking at grad student applications, for instance, things I look for are, I, you know, we rarely look at grades these days. Um, I mean, grades matter, but not a ton. the gRE scores, we don't even consider those anymore. Um, so these, these, sort of traditional metrics are not under consideration. It's more of like a holistic view of a person. And a big part of that [00:28:00] is are you passionate and can you do stuff? Can you get stuff done? Can you learn on your own? Are you sort of self-motivated and a self-starter? do you have that sort of grit sort of x factor thing? And have you done something like, have you seen, done, seen something through to completion? So if you're taking a gap year, go do something for a year and and see it through and, and then tell me why you did that and how you did that. And I also think that graduate students who start after. especially having a, a professional thing like going to [00:28:30] work nine to five or something for a year, they start graduate school and hit the ground running much faster than people. who go right from undergrad, to grad, school. Cuz grad school is not school it's an apprenticeship. Um, so it really is, you gotta treat it like work to be efficient. I did a horrible job of that and I spent too long in graduate school because of it. Um, I had to play catch up a lot later on. And the, the students who are, are, are quite successful in

Listener Question: graduate

Dr. Jesse Reimink: graduate school are ones who kind of approach it with a bit more of a [00:29:00] work-like mentality. And I'm I way in here, other people who've been to graduate school as well about that. But,

Chris Bolhuis: uh,

he took a

gap

year and that's when he found out that he didn't

want to

be a

teacher, his dad, you know, and that was the natural course for him. His dad was a teacher at that, where I work for 30 plus years. Yeah.

And that's when I found out you didn't

Dr. Jesse Reimink: wanna do it. That's, yeah. I always kind of struggled with this too. In, in, in, uh, college I struggled with, I liked research. I thought I didn't really know what it entailed, but I did some [00:29:30] undergrad research projects and I thought I liked that and I thought maybe I'd like to go to school. I always liked, thought I wanted to be a teacher of some kind and a professor who could do some research. Sounded interesting too. Um, but I struggled with that. I of, I often sort of thought that maybe this Geology thing

Listener Question: is

Dr. Jesse Reimink: just like a, a, hobby that went awry. Like I like collecting rocks and so maybe that just got too big and it's really right there. Did you just say that? I did. That's what, this is what I struggled with. I did in college. I was like, [00:30:00] I remember sitting down with a mentor of mine, uh, at hope and being like I think this is just a hobby that's gotten too big in my life and I don't know what I'm gonna do with it. Um, and so the, the year off, I often kind of thought maybe I should go teach high school. Cause I know that I know there's something there for me. Like I, I can go do that. Um, and I know what that is. but then this year off a, I figured out that manual labor in a vice plant sucks , and b I figured out babysitting ninth graders in math was really not for me either. And [00:30:30] so it was a great experience I didn't, you know, neither of those like really built my resume. Uh, but I'd already gotten into this graduate school in Alberta, so all I did was defer a year. Um, so, you know, that wasn't really necessary. I was saving money for graduate school is really what I needed to do. So anyway, it's a tough question and it's a really personal one, but I would say if you're, if you're really considering a gap year, gap years are great, don't shy away from it and just think through what you're doing. And it does not need to be, don't stress about being in geoscience. At least that's, [00:31:00] you know, my opinion.

Listener Question: so thank you.

Dr. Jesse Reimink: question though. I think

Chris Bolhuis: everyone you ask is gonna give you maybe a different answer

too. people are afraid, well if you take a

gap year, what are you gonna buy? Cuz everything you buy ties you down. You know, it makes it more difficult to go back to the college life,

Listener Question: so I've listened to some of your podcasts and I really appreciate that you guys. you tackle difficult subjects and you get the Geology right. And I think that's really important. And I'm wondering, is that something that you do without trying too hard or do you have [00:31:30] to work at getting the Geology right on certain subjects that you may not have expertise on? So kind kind of how much background research goes into deciding what to talk about. Yeah. And, and how do you get the Geology right? Because as you say, it's complex and you have to get pretty deep to get things right and, and then communicate it at a, at a pretty simple level. Yeah, it seems like a delicate balancing act. Uh,

Dr. Jesse Reimink: Uh, that's a great

great question. I think, and I'll answer first, I guess, is that [00:32:00] we, uh, it takes a long, some scripts take a lot longer to write, but we do script things out and do research, you know, ahead of time, especially on topics that we're not as comfortable with. that's really, fun too. Like, I've learned so much by doing this about, you know, Chris wanted to do the Geology of sand. Okay, really? But actually it's super interesting and you dive into it and you're like, oh crap, this is super interesting. Like sand is such a huge commodity in our economy and all this stuff. So it's like I bring stuff, I teach the physical [00:32:30] Geology class at one of the sections at Penn State, which we have 250 students in that particular section I teach I use stuff that I learned by putting together stuff from the podcast all the time in that class. So there's a big feedback, uh, between. The sort of traditional professional development and this exercise of creating scripts, it's not painless. We fight about stuff a lot. We don't fight much anymore, though. We used to fight a lot more. Yeah, you listen to me a lot more so it's better. Oh gosh. But the, uh, there are times where we'd be like, I [00:33:00] just don't get it, Chris. Like, I don't get this Geology of sand or something like that. Or . I wanted to do one on nuclear reactors and he, fought me on that. But I, yeah. I don't know. What do you

Listener Question: first of all,

Chris Bolhuis: I'll be the first to say that I'm a hundred percent positive. We have not gotten all the Geology right. But we do, we do our best. and it, doing a podcast is a, ton of work. and you know, we fir when we started, we were doing an episode every other. And then I called them just outta the blue. I'm like jesse, we need to do [00:33:30] short episodes. and and so we'll do those every other week. And then we need to do regular long episodes every the week. So we're putting something out every week cuz we wanted growth. And then the shorts have turned in, we're pumping something out every week now. And it's just a lot. It's, it's very time consuming and it, it, it snowballs into something that you never would've guessed that it would turn into. But some touch on what he said. This is hands down, the best professional [00:34:00] development I have ever been a part of is doing this podcast. It has made me a better teacher. It has made me better in

Listener Question: field.

Chris Bolhuis: field.

Listener Question: Um, I,

Chris Bolhuis: I have to curate what I can talk about when I'm in front of students because,

Listener Question: I

Chris Bolhuis: have way more than I that I would like to talk about in bringing depth that I just don't have time for because we've learned so much doing this podcast.

Listener Question: Um,

Chris Bolhuis: so

it's a lot

of work.

Listener Question: best

Chris Bolhuis: PD I've ever [00:34:30] had. And plus it is just a lot of fun. I mean, our personal relationship is, it's always been a, we've always had a good relationship, but you know, now if I go a day without talking to Jesse, it's a weird thing.

Dr. Jesse Reimink: it's, he calls me cuz he misses me sometimes too. I think, I mean, the other thing is that there's an edited button, right? So, you know, some things we don't get right. And, you know, when we're listening to it again, we're like, Hey, that didn't, you know, either you misspoke or we didn't really nail that part of the script. And [00:35:00] li upon listening to the, the you know, draft version of the audio, it doesn't quite make sense the way we explain it there. So

Listener Question: sometimes

Dr. Jesse Reimink: we'll just cut that block out and piece it back together. So the edit button is a very powerful thing for fixing mistakes. Um, and we have like just little like, work from home setups that we can just sit down and hit record and the audio is the exact same every time. So makes it easier to

Listener Question: fix those, those types of things.

Dr. Jesse Reimink: we've gotten more efficient at that, but it's still, we still, make mistakes

Chris Bolhuis: So

no, we [00:35:30] don't just, it doesn't just pop into our heads,

have to,

when we come up with an idea, we have to pitch it to each other. We have to sell each other. This is a good

idea.

and we argue

about

that sometimes. Yeah. Because we take it seriously.

We want to put out a good

product we do less of that now. We did a lot more. I, but the number of times I

said, just listen

to,

me, .

Dr. Jesse Reimink: Yeah. Just trust me. Trust, trust me, Jesse. Just trust me.

I mean,

I think that's

good maybe intro to like, what

Listener Question: what,

Dr. Jesse Reimink: we've learned a little bit and how,

I guess what there is else to [00:36:00] learn, I suppose, like we're, you know, the place we're at, I guess is.

we're getting,

you know, a

healthy number of, of listeners, I guess and

we e random

emails from

various people, probably,

I don't know, five, 10 a week or something like that. Various questions. And some

people

are

extremely

into geoscience and you know, they'll

find news articles about,

some press release, about some research about the core,

you know, circulation pattern's changing.

And it'll send

us an email about, Hey, need to explain this, or You said this in [00:36:30] your podcast episode, but you know, it doesn't fit with what this article

says and what's the

difference, what's going on here. and. so, some of those take a long time to dive

into and

we've sort

Listener Question: of

Dr. Jesse Reimink: learned

to filter through that a

little bit.

Um, meaning not

filter through,

but

working on more things at once. Yeah. What's interesting and what's not, like tease apart. How do you explain, how do you go, how do you talk

about the

core and the

important parts about

the core without getting

lost in the

weeds, of this,

like, really niche

research

that some [00:37:00] science daily article is being written about.

that's an exercise that we've

gotten better at and we need to get better at. I think too, a little bit is, is there's room for improvement of,

figuring

out

what's interesting.

Is this gonna put my mom to sleep? It's a good one. That's a good one. Yeah. That's, that's a good me a good tool.

so I mean, yeah, it's a lot of work. It's super fun. We wouldn't still be doing it if it wasn't fun. Mm-hmm. And if, because

Listener Question: it's

Dr. Jesse Reimink: fun, what are we doing this for? Um,

but

think,

yeah, that's kind of where we're at. We started really slow, like Chris

said, there's by

the time we [00:37:30] launched, we had the idea and then we'd figure out how to do it and then record a couple episodes, then get 'em edited by the time we like publish. Within a month from doing that. there was probably half dozen other Geology

like podcasts out

there. Yeah. Most

of them

have

stopped producing regular content.

I would say.

But,

Listener Question: yeah, it takes long to

Dr. Jesse Reimink: grow some of this stuff. So I, like I I was, I worked

with,

um, some

people in the communications

department

at Penn State who, uh, are interested in podcasting and so there's [00:38:00] this like

group

of people on campus who have a podcast or who do stuff related to podcasts, either production or hosting. there's a lot of undergrads who are interested, in starting a podcast and. the, the universal advice that the people, the communications professors give is like, you know, start it for your own internal

benefits.

you're not

going to become Joe Rogan or fill in the blank person.

Like, you know, it's, it's extremely difficult and, You're competing for people's

time, which is extremely limited. So,

I think that's one thing we've, we've definitely taken away. Although for us, the [00:38:30] success metrics are

not

am I making money or not. It's really like how well are we communicating

passionate about.

Mm-hmm. is really a metric. we've also realized that there's a

lot of people,

Steve

Maddox included, who are, very gracious with their time, who

are experts

something

and we're constantly blown away by the amount of

access, people will give us

for an hour, hour and a half of their time to come join us over Zoom and talk about their thing.

I mean, we've talked to curators at the Smithsonian. Talked to top[00:39:00]

Phonology researchers,

we've talked to

professors, we've talked

to industrial Ecologist who studies, you know, recycling of metals in the environment or in society. I mean, really interesting. People, authors, a lot of authors, publishers

Chris Bolhuis: send us

publishers. They're, they're people and we just got another one today that they want us to interview this author. And

Dr. Jesse Reimink: it's, it's been a really cool thing. Totally amazing. Like the amount of people who are willing to donate their time, really to sort talk about their, what they're passionate about is super cool. So [00:39:30] I've learned a lot from that

Listener Question: So it sounds sounds like you guys have done like a lot of, um, Accenture background research for a lot of your episodes and that. There's been like a lot of rabbit holes or deep dives that had to go into. Are Are there any particular segments that have been, um, a lot of fun to do a lot of background research on, or for that matter, ones that have been more difficult to like rack your head around? Um, in the geosciences?

Dr. Jesse Reimink: You want to go ahead and tackle this one? I need time to think. You need time to think. Okay, I can do that. Uh, for me personally, my, my, um, the ones that [00:40:00] are most fun for me, i, and

I think

I might portray this this

way. Chris is very good and very driven by the, passion aspect and like the, we don't have a planet B, you know, that is your one thing you say a lot. And, and Chris is really motivated by that.

For me,

love

the, economic

footprint of geoscience

as sort

of the thing that,

that,

you know, we

don't

appreciate as society. Right? And both

things are, are, are very important, but I

lean more on that side. So I love the episodes where we're talking about like, Of the Geology of Neodymium. [00:40:30] and how is Neodymium used in magnets and like, where is neodymium found on earth?

neodymium is an element that's near and dear to my heart

as well, but lithium, learning about that, those are really fun deep dives for me. So the sand, talking about

sand was really interesting

because

Listener Question: you

Dr. Jesse Reimink: you

realize

well, crap, this is a huge commodity and massive part of our economy that nobody talks about and I never knew about.

And I have a PhD in Geology. Like, so those things for me are

the most fun. You wanna take

the fun one and then we can get hard ones? Well,

Chris Bolhuis: no, I'm gonna actually go with the hard

one. Um,

for [00:41:00] me, never listens to me. The the hard ones

are always the interviews

because I

want,

the person that we are interviewing to know that we've

done

our

homework on that. And so that's really

important

to,

you know, how do you, how do

you make

them

know that? Well, you have to ask questions that,

that

deeper than just skin level. that

takes time. You have

to watch interviews

that they've

given. You have to read papers they've

written,

uh, they've been in the news,

you know? So I [00:41:30] think those, those

take a lot of time.

Dr. Jesse Reimink: I think for me,

the hard ones

are the

big

concepts,

the carbon cycle. I mean, it's hard for me to think, okay, how do we do this in 45 minutes? You know, plate

tectonics

type things. It, it's really

hard

for me to distill down a

massive concept with a whole bunch of rabbit

holes into like a coherent

thing

that flows and is easy to listen to

for 30

or 45 minutes.

Yeah. So

those are

the ones that I have a harder time wrapping

my head

around, probably,

because of my inclination to get lost in the weeds a bit too [00:42:00] much.

but

yeah, that's what

I find difficult.

I mean, which

which ones do you

Listener Question: most

Dr. Jesse Reimink: Or do you?

hate no, I,

Chris Bolhuis: I, I

love '

all.

Uh, I don't know.

The ones that I've liked the most are the

ones that,

I didn't expect. you

know, your, your favorite thing in Geology was the ancient nuclear reactors and like, learning about that. I had never heard about that before, so I had to get ready to do a podcast. I have to be ready to talk about this. Like I know

what I'm

Listener Question: talking about.

Chris Bolhuis: I'd love that. that's the thing is [00:42:30] I, I've learned

much doing

this,

because I

have to, but I

enjoy it so

much. I

enjoy the

Listener Question: boss

Chris Bolhuis: of learning, especially learning about Geology.

Dr. Jesse Reimink: So I mean, it's like a tough assignment, you know, sit down and say, okay, write a script about something.

It's, yeah, it's like a homework assignment that you have to do. Yeah. And you have to I

don't know if we compete

really, but

when

you're having a conversation, somebody

else could say something

off the

cuff,

and Chris does this to me all the time.

Oh, well, Jesse, what?

how does that thing work? And

I'm like,

That's not in the script. Like I didn't prepare for [00:43:00] that. You know, like, why are you asking me that question? So there is that like potential, so you kinda always want to over prepare a little bit. Yeah. Um, That's,

like, at least my instinct is to do that.

it's, uh, but, but that adds some fun to it,

Listener Question: I think I heard you say that you look at grad school applications yourself. Is that correct? Yeah. So what is a trait that you look for that will set me apart from another student? Or when you're looking at many grad school school applications and you've narrowed down that you think would be would be best, is there a trait that you instantly look forward to see if [00:43:30] that would set 'em apart, I guess would be my question. That's a great question. question. Um,

Dr. Jesse Reimink: is there

a trait? No, I

would

say there's no trait that

would set you

apart,

but

are very unlikely to get into graduate

school if if you don't have

like a person

who's on the committee who like might be your

supervisor,

who is your proponent.

So the way grad school entrance works is it's

not like undergrad.

You don't just apply and they look at

all the

files and then say, okay, these

ones are the

ones

we're ranking high. What [00:44:00] happens is, at least at

Penn State, and in

every

institution

I've been

exposed to,

basically

what happens is, there are professors who don't have any money for graduate students.

There are professors who

Listener Question: don't want

anymore

Dr. Jesse Reimink: students. I'm

fully loaded with students.

can't take on any more graduate students.

don't have the time. so I

didn't

accept any students this year. So if you

were interested in igneous, petrology at Penn State University, you're just not getting in because

I'm the only

igneous pathologist and I can't take another student on.

timing is a huge one.

funding

is another

one. [00:44:30] I

could really want to take out another student, but I don't have money to support the student, so I couldn't take on another student. So if you just sent like a blanket email to a thousand faculty members who

could supervise you for graduate school,

30, 40% would not reply to you,

meaning

they're not interested or they don't have money or they're overloaded. Another 30% would reply, but probably not have the funding or the time to take students on. And then,

you

know, you'll get a

response.

from 20 who are interested and you should have a meeting with them and

Make a

personal

connection

and. [00:45:00] Um, we

can talk about if

you're,

interested, we can talk about how those go. But

the point

is, is

if you just blanket apply without talking to anybody, you're very unlikely to get in because you don't know if there's an igneous pathologist

who's Interested who has funding and is interested in graduate students at that

Listener Question: time. So

Dr. Jesse Reimink: that's the only thing I would say is

like a

Listener Question: definite

need to have is

Dr. Jesse Reimink: make

Chris Bolhuis: contacts. So how

would

a student gain that audience with a, with a

potential

[00:45:30] supervising

Dr. Jesse Reimink: professor, spam emails? , I get probably 30 a year at least of just random emails saying, hi, professor Reimink. I'm interested in your research program.

Are you accepting students? If so, could we meet for half an hour? I mean, that's the ideal email.

like I would say

if this is what I tell the undergrads working in my group of how to approach graduate school as. Send an email to

them personally

that is

constructed for that individual person.

you know, hi Dr. Bauer. I was on the University of Wisconsin website and I noticed a [00:46:00] research program I was particularly

interested in this,

Listener Question: and this,

Dr. Jesse Reimink: fill in the

blank.

Their,

lab group or their

techniques or

some paper they published that caught your eye. Be honest and genuine, like you gotta do your homework.

And then give a little blurb, two sentences about yourself. I'm finishing my undergrad degree at Grand Valley this fall.

I've done some

research on

fill in the blank.

and I

think I could be a

good fit.

Are you accepting graduate students fall

24? And if

so, would

you be

willing meet with me for half an [00:46:30] hour over Zoom? And we could, we could make a connection. I could ask you some questions. They would ask you some questions too at that point. and if you don't get a response, email them again in a

Listener Question: couple

Dr. Jesse Reimink: weeks

And if you don't get a

response again,

email them one

more time

in a couple

weeks

and

Listener Question: then

Dr. Jesse Reimink: leave it. I had a graduate

student, one

of my graduate students who was

working

with me,

now, it

just got lost.

in the inbox.

Like my emails, I lose emails, I'm,

And

so she had to email me a

Listener Question: times

Dr. Jesse Reimink: and she's,

great. She's awesome. I'm super glad that I, she emailed me the second time

Listener Question: she's great. [00:47:00] So

Dr. Jesse Reimink: how I suggest advice going about getting into graduate school. But you also have to apply to a bunch of different places, cuz you never know and not getting into

a grad, a particular program is

reflection on you.

It the Vast

majority of the time, it's circumstances. So, okay, let me finish, What happens is there's a graduate entrance committee. I sat on ours for a long time. Six faculty members. One of them is in charge of the graduate program. They basically say, okay, we have 20

ships that

Listener Question: can distribute.

so[00:47:30]

Dr. Jesse Reimink: there's good candidates everywhere. We want to take as many as we can and we need to find out how to fund it. Okay. Dr. Reimink has an

nsf. grant and has a student

who would be great.

that

Listener Question: is accepted.

Dr. Jesse Reimink: this faculty member

does

not have

funding and

needs a TA

ship to support a student, but they've

got

this really

great student.

that

person will get

accepted,

and and go and be a TA

Listener Question: to support

Dr. Jesse Reimink: their program

and then so they kind of play this like game of mix and match depending on who has money,

who doesn't have money. Who needs

departmental

money to

support students,

and then whose alternatives. If [00:48:00] I had a TA

slot

last year,

I'm not

gonna

get another

TA slot.

Me being the faculty member, like there's limited TAs and there's probably one for every two or three faculty members. So you kind of, go back and forth between different faculty members.

that's

how the system

Listener Question: works.

Dr. Jesse Reimink: So you

can

see why there's no like trait that would say, , yes, you're going to get in.

You

know,

personal take,

on graduate schools, like I said

before, grit,

show me that you are like determined and you're a self-starter and you're, you learn on your own.

Like that's the biggest

that you're interested.

Like you, you don't need to be a great [00:48:30] writer. You don't need to have great grades,

You

don't need to have research experience.

If you can coherently tell

why you're interested in

My, program

and

somehow show me that you,

are like, somebody who

does, who

like gets stuff done. there's so many ways to do that. But that, you know, that's sort of the, the signals that I think are

Listener Question: interesting.

Dr. Jesse Reimink: to look for.

Listener Question: was wondering if you you there was a was a difference between, so not since more towards Chris, I guess since you're a teacher and now you've done a as well, or have been have been doing one between [00:49:00] kind of science teaching and science communication or if they're kind of one in the same, uh, you know, as one in umbrella term for for the other, or are they both kind of synonymous?

Dr. Jesse Reimink: That is a great question.

What are you gonna say this? I don't, that's a tough one. I don't know. I don't find myself, that's a great question, situation very often.

Listener Question: Um,

definitely

there's a difference,

Chris Bolhuis: with

geoscience,

communication. We

get

Listener Question: what we do.

Chris Bolhuis: do. There's no structure

and we do that.

on purpose. That was, uh, we, we've had arguments about this when we were [00:49:30] doing our

startup

on it is, do

we want

a structure to this? Do we want to

through

and and we settled on deliberately, no, we want to be all over the map.

and so we get to pick that. Sometimes we, we want to talk about

Listener Question: that are,

Chris Bolhuis: uh,

Listener Question: in the news,

Chris Bolhuis: Um, and sometimes we wanna stay

as far away from that as as

possible.

with this, this

terrible uh,

earthquake

Turkey, we didn't feel like we

had anything

offer to that conversation you know, we just, so we deliberately

step

back

from that. But

I think that's the [00:50:00] thing about

Listener Question: was that

Chris Bolhuis: as a teacher, I have to be structured, I have to be

organized, I go through things

in a very

systematic way.

I think that I know how a

Geology

one 11

course should be taught.

I know that the order

Listener Question: should

go.

Chris Bolhuis: Um, because it's

Listener Question: that I've,

Chris Bolhuis: thought a

lot

about.

And

that

process works for me

But with, geoscience communication,

yeah, I

think it's the freedom to pick and choose

and go in

directions

that you want to go

in that are [00:50:30] interesting.

just

because

that catches your

eye.

Listener Question: I love that.

Dr. Jesse Reimink: I

love that about it. I

think I'd add

one thing to

Listener Question: that is that,

Dr. Jesse Reimink: you know, with classes,

I mean, students are,

contractually obligated to sit and listen to Chris, right? For the time and, and, and college level classes, like

Listener Question: I

Dr. Jesse Reimink: I

determined

what

grade you get.

So I

kind of have a lot of control of the situation

as a professor when you're up

on stage. Right.

Like you

kind of

can

what

you want

a little bit more.

With the

science communication, people can hit pause and leave whenever they want. So there's a little

Listener Question: more[00:51:00]

Dr. Jesse Reimink: I find it slightly harder

in a way

Listener Question: Cause

Dr. Jesse Reimink: there's

like a,

you know, a two-way sort

of evaluation always

Listener Question: on.

Dr. Jesse Reimink: on.

they

don't

need to listen

for a grade

or any other reason. It's

just

for pleasure. So

you,

really kind of have to, We

try and maintain like a very positive dynamic attitude.

Even

if we're cranky, sometimes we'll just be like, we'll start 15

Listener Question: in, I'll be like,

stop,

Dr. Jesse Reimink: Chris,

you are not enthusiastic enough right now.

Like, you

Gotta

pick

it up.

here a little bit, man. Like, I don't care what your day was, we gotta pick it up and he'll do the same to me. [00:51:30] Um, so there's like a little bit more, of that aspect. I don't know what that aspect is, but Entertaining

or,

kind of harder, hitting quicker. because

will stop.

And we noticed this,

we've noticed

this

a couple times in episodes where you can kind of see where listeners drop off in an episode. Where do they

stop

listening and go away and not come back and certain episodes?

When did Joyce fall asleep? When did Joyce fall asleep?

don't know that, but we

know when people hit stop and went to the other podcast.

so I,

you know, you could see

that in some episodes where

it's like,

oh, that, you know, [00:52:00] that transition,

that five minute

Listener Question: is

Dr. Jesse Reimink: uninteresting.

cuz people went away. Hey Chris. That's a wrap man. you can follow us on all the social medias. We're at Planet Geo Cast. You can go to our website, planet geo cast.com. There you can like, follow, subscribe, check out episodes, transcripts, and you can support us there. We always appreciate it when you [00:52:30] support us.

and you can go to our Camp Geo conversational textbook. That is the first link in the show notes. Totally cool. we are constantly revising the app to add some improvements that you have asked for, that various users have asked for, so that thing's constantly being updated.

Check it

out, let us know what you think.

Chris Bolhuis: That's right, and we also ask one of our favorite things. Please share planet Geo with somebody that you think. might enjoy it or should enjoy it.

That is

Dr. Jesse Reimink: right. Absolutely. Absolutely. [00:53:00] Cheers.

Chris Bolhuis: Cheers.

Jesse Reimink

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