Geoscience Careers #1 - Renewable Consulting with Andrew DeWitt
Dr. Jesse Reimink: [00:00:00]
Welcome to Planet the podcast where we talk about our amazing planet, how it works, and why it matters to you.
Chris Bolhuis: Hey, are you?
Dr. Jesse Reimink: I can't just not laugh. Looking at you sometimes you were looking particularly confused and I think it's because you had your big NASA panel set up. You have three screens. You got how many keyboards do you have?
Chris Bolhuis: you caught [00:00:30] me looking up at one of my screens and so yeah, that's, it's not confusion this time. Uh, but I will say you and I got mad at each other, today, this morning, and you, you know what I'm talking about.
Dr. Jesse Reimink: Uh,
Chris Bolhuis: were, I was upset with you because you were upset with me because you think I am technologically illiterate,
and you're like, oh my gosh, I sent this guy the link
and he can't open it.
And
Dr. Jesse Reimink: Links, links stymie Chris boy, despite the NASA screen.
Chris Bolhuis: this is not [00:01:00] true. It is just
Dr. Jesse Reimink: well I think it's a, it's a rare episode where we don't have at least some technological difficulty between the two of us. So
Chris Bolhuis: I know. That's why I'm always on early, you know, I'm like, I know I'm gonna have difficulty here because the partner that's setting me up, I think you're setting me up on, no, you are setting me up on purpose to fail and I don't appreciate that
Dr. Jesse Reimink: Every once
in a while, I'll send you the wrong link.
Chris Bolhuis: Yeah.
And then you get mad at me.
Dr. Jesse Reimink: like Andrew said in this interview, he says, wow, you guys have been doing this for [00:01:30] how long. You guys cannot get your technology down.
Chris Bolhuis: He did call us a train wreck.
Dr. Jesse Reimink: well this time it was probably my fault for copying the wrong link or something, but I think we gotta sort it out. We'll get it ironed out. I think by year six we'll probably get this ironed out, don't you think? Three more years.
Chris Bolhuis: this is four years for us. We've been doing
this for, that's a long time.
Dr. Jesse Reimink: And we still can't
figure it out. Um, so this is the first, this is kind of a fun interview. Andrew Dewitt, who is a, a close friend of both of ours, [00:02:00] and we chose to interview Andrew. I think, Chris, let me, let me pitch this. I think 'cause, because you pitched this idea, I think initially, but we've kind of been having this revolving conversation about, For a long time about interviewing people in industry and we didn't really know how to get into it, like how to start to tackle it.
And so we decided to interview Andrew, who is a close friend of both of ours and works in, a geoscience adjacent industry. So Andrew's a director, at Atwell, L L C, which is an environmental consulting group. He's been in the environmental consulting world for most of his career as a professional. I think [00:02:30] Andrew has a master's degree, Him and I graduated high school together. We took your summer science class together, and, that was really a, trip that solidified for me and initiated for him the sort of passion for geoscience and the, this sort of career trajectory, I think. And so that's why we chose to interview Andrew who.
We both know quite well, very well and are close friends with, uh, in this, this episode to kind of lead into the industry geologist perspective, which we'll have a whole series coming up and we'll continue to interview people,[00:03:00] in the geoscience industry about their perspectives.
Chris Bolhuis: I think that's gonna come across in the interview that we are all very, very comfortable with each other. it's gonna be like a, kind of a different interview from that standpoint. I, I think it's a good thing. Uh, um, but our other interviews coming up Our next interview in this series is gonna include Erica Dalman, and it, it, that takes a little bit of a more of a normal tone for the, for the way that our interviews go.
Dr. Jesse Reimink: That's right. And, and so Andrew, you know, [00:03:30] provides a very different perspective. Like I said, he is been in the environmental consulting world. He's moving up the ranks quite quickly in the environmental consulting world. Worked on some really cool projects, including the Keystone Pipeline Project, which he talks briefly about and is now kind of a, a, a regional, if not national leader in the.
offshore, wind farms, solar farms, like really getting into this alternative energy space from an environmental consulting perspective. So it's a really interesting view of the geosciences. But Chris, I, have a question for you. So Andrew also teaches the summer science class with you now.
So he's a [00:04:00] co-instructor on this summer science trip, but he's also on the school board at Hudsonville High School. So is he technically your boss? Does that make him your boss? How does this work?
Chris Bolhuis: I cannot believe that you just sprung this on me. Um, I suppose
Dr. Jesse Reimink: Like in a, in a
Chris Bolhuis: he
is. Okay. Well, he says he is like directly, like he
Dr. Jesse Reimink: you report to him your day-to-day
operations.
Chris Bolhuis: he actually requires me to call him every morning and tell him what I'm gonna do [00:04:30] that day. And then he has to either approve or disprove that, you know, that Chris Behe cannot do that.
Um, yeah, he's, he is, he is a tyrant actually.
Dr. Jesse Reimink: is a tire, I mean, ruling with an iron fist.
Chris Bolhuis: yeah.
Dr. Jesse Reimink: Oh, that's funny. That's right. Well, I mean you and you guys teach, so I all that, oh, that joke to say that you guys teach summer science together and it is sort of deeply invested in education and mentorship and that comes across very much in this interview. So, hey, if you like Planet Geo, Go to our website, planet geo [00:05:00] cast.com. you can send us an email planet Geo cast@gmail.com on our website. There's contact us links as well. You can view all of our past episodes, learn about us, you can support us. We really appreciate that and we also appreciate if you would give us a rating in a review 'cause that helps the podcast algorithm and helps us get the word about geosciences out there to more people.
Chris Bolhuis: Hey, Andrew Dewitt coming your way.
Andrew Dewitt: [00:05:30] How many years have you guys been doing this now?
Dr. Jesse Reimink: No, we're good.
Andrew Dewitt: Have you guys, have you guys done this before or not? I don't know.
Dr. Jesse Reimink: I was telling Andrew that it's rare that an interview goes by without Chris having technical difficulties. You didn't have the link, and I know you have it in three places. Chris, I emailed it to you
from Riverside. I sent you
a
Chris Bolhuis: that, that's true. That's a
Dr. Jesse Reimink: and our, our
shared Planet Geo
Calendar has it in
Chris Bolhuis: So I, you know, the, the [00:06:00] fiasco with my storage on, on Google Drive. Right and, and so I cleaned out all my email and I wiped
Dr. Jesse Reimink: I'm aware.
Chris Bolhuis: out on accident. So I'm, I'm
starting from scratch.
I have three ma, three emails in my, so.
Dr. Jesse Reimink: zero. Even well that was not our normal
intro to interviews and uh, the reason
is 'cause we have Andrew Dewitt with us. Our good buddy Handy, Andy Andrew, welcome to Planet
Andrew Dewitt: Okay. That'll be the last time you
call me [00:06:30] Handy, Andy Let's just put that right out there right now. I'm
Andrew. Thank
Chris Bolhuis: what are you gonna do about it?
Andrew Dewitt: Well, you're right. I can't reach through the screen, but if I could, I.
We'd have, we'd have some words.
Dr. Jesse Reimink: As Chris
always says, this is my podcast, I get to say what I want. Right, Chris?
Chris Bolhuis: That's right. I do.
Andrew Dewitt: Not today. Not today. I
Chris Bolhuis: Okay. All
right. Andrew
dewitt. How the heck are you, man?
Andrew Dewitt: I'm good. I'm good. It's
Chris Bolhuis: good
Andrew Dewitt: How
are you?
Chris Bolhuis: it's been two weeks since I've seen you and, and we spent the three weeks together 24 7.
So I'm, I'm a little, [00:07:00] I'm going through withdrawal,
you.
know, I, and I bet you are too. I know. You know, it's gotta be hard. Um, so Andrew, I always lead off with this question. And I'm really interested into your insight into it, but how, tell us your story on how you got into geoscience, because there was definitely an aha moment for me.
I know there was with Jesse. Tell us your story.
Andrew Dewitt: Yeah. So for me, when I was in high school, back in, you know, the early two [00:07:30] thousands, I thought I wanted to go to college and pursue a, a degree in biology because I wanted to be a, a biology teacher, high school biology teacher.
And then in the summer of 2004, I had the opportunity to go on the summer science trip and, um, we'll talk about that probably in a little bit here. But, um, it was on that trip where I learned a lot about the Geology of all the areas we visited out west. that was for me, an aha moment. I remember being in the Black Hills, up on the top of Little Devil's Tower.
I. [00:08:00] And I remember literally like tearing up, like the views up there, looking around, hearing about the Geology, talking about its importance, the views and, and everything else. It really, it really took me and I thought, you know what? There's more to learn here and I wanna learn as much about it as I can.
And so for me, the aha moment literally was on little Devil's Tower. and from there I decided to,
take a Geology class in high school, uh, taught by Mr. Mr. Bo Heis here. and
Dr. Jesse Reimink: should,
we, Andrew, should we call him Mr. Bohi
for the [00:08:30] whole episode? Do we need to, do we need to
Chris Bolhuis: no, no.
Dr. Jesse Reimink: Bohi?
Chris Bolhuis: You can't.
Andrew Dewitt: So I took, I took the high school Geology class, and after that I said, you know what, I'm, I wanna learn more. And I went to Grand Valley and got my bachelor's degree in Geology with a minor, in biology.
And, uh, went from there. So that was my aha moment. It was in the Black Hills.
Chris Bolhuis: Quick question about that,
Andrew, When did you tear up? Did you tear up when
the
sun came up, or did you tear up? when the sun was already up then, and we just started talking about how this came to be. [00:09:00] How did the Black Hills form, what, at what point, what was it for you?
Andrew Dewitt: So for me it was the view and Chris, back then we did that hike during the day. So we did not do the sunrise hike. So now we take the students, we get up at 3:00 AM and we hike up and uh, watch the sunrise. And that's amazing. And that gets me too, even to this day. But back then it was the view during the day.
But it, for me, it was, it was always the view. It was like, wow, this is, this is sweet, this is cool. It had been the first time I'd ever been out west and I knew I wanted to know more,
Dr. Jesse Reimink: so Andrew, I, another question about that. 'cause I know that [00:09:30] we journaled, right? We had to journal during, uh, we were on the same trip, the same summer science trip. We actually shared a tent. That's kind of where we became quite good friends, I think. And do have you reread your journal from Summer Science?
Like do you still have it your high school summer science journal or do we turn those in? Because I, I don't remember. 'cause I remember you talking about journaling at Little Devil's Tower.
Andrew Dewitt: yeah. So a lot of times when we get up to, uh, the top of a hike, wherever we are, we,
we, the student's journal.
And so, yeah. So when I was a student, I journaled and I remember, I remember being very sappy and, [00:10:00] and, and, uh, I don't, I haven't read it recently, but I remember saying this was a really cool, really special feeling, really cool opportunity in that it was gonna probably change my life and it certainly did.
Chris Bolhuis: Interesting.
Dr. Jesse Reimink: So Andrew, walk us forward, like, walk us through your career up until this point. Like, can you give us the, the quick summary? I mean, Chris and I know this, but, but give us the quick summary and maybe give us your,
like, evolution in thinking about geoscience throughout that
process.
Andrew Dewitt: Sure. I, when I went to Grand Valley, I thought I wanted to be a [00:10:30] biology teacher when I was in high school, but when I got to Grand Valley, I thought I wanted to be a, a Geology or earth science teacher.
So I took all education classes. I started going down, a biology minor track because in Michigan you gotta have a minor in order to teach. And, it was probably a year and a half in where I thought, you know what? Teaching, while I like it, it's not something that I, I want to do for a career. I knew there were other opportunities for me to be impactful to students.
And, uh, there certainly are, and I certainly do that today. but I, I [00:11:00] decided to, to go into Geology with the intention of becoming a consultant. But my options, I wanted to keep my
Chris Bolhuis: Okay. 'cause you lost time, right? Because you were going into education, so you lost about a year, didn't you?
Andrew Dewitt: I did. Yep. I
lost a year. But looking back at what I do today, that biology background is actually really important. So I wouldn't have, I probably wouldn't have done it any other way. when I was at Grand Valley, I had a lot of opportunities to do undergraduate research. I presented at conferences, I helped write papers.
and I took advantage of some opportunities [00:11:30] that kind of came my way. one of the things that really kind of sparked my interest was a undergraduate research project that I did at a local river. We were mapping, Basically substrate temperature anomalies in a local stream and looking at how groundwater interacts with surface water and what it means for temperature and how temperature could affect aquatic organisms and fish and things like that.
so after Grand Valley, I decided to go to Missouri State and study basically rivers, fluvial geomorphology While
I was
Chris Bolhuis: Andrew. [00:12:00] Andrew loves to say Fluvial geomorphologist.
And if you
ask him, Andrew, what? What are you? I am a Fluvial. Geomorphologist. He loves to say that. Then students like,
put, they just do this, ah, kind of thing. You know? He's put him on a
pedestal.
Dr. Jesse Reimink: but I, I, I must say if, it's a cool word, I would call myself that too. It's way cooler than
geochemist or, you know, uh, igneous pathologist that doesn't have quite the ring to it.
Andrew Dewitt: To be clear,
I'm not a fluvial geomorphologist, but I have studied fluvial
geomorphology,
so I like to say it, but
part of what I [00:12:30] knew, I knew if I wanted a job in Michigan, that's related to earth science or Geology. I had to have a background in water of some sort, and I had to have some understanding of sediment, sediment transport.
And so to me, Fu geomorphology covers both those things. So it's really studying rivers, how they behave, why they behave that way, et cetera. and so I had a, a research, assistantship there through an environmental institute. It's called the Ozarks Environmental and Water Resources Institute. And they funded my masters and I had opportunities to do basically consulting work while I was gonna school, which was a really powerful thing for me.
Dr. Jesse Reimink: [00:13:00] I, I guess I, I don't know Andrew, I, you know, we went through this process much at the same time, right? And so we talked frequently throughout this. I was definitely not that, um, Insightful or like forward looking.
Did you go into, like when you were looking for graduate schools, did you look for one on Rivers specifically because you knew you wanted to work on water coming and coming back to Michigan and like why rivers and not lakes? Why not some other groundwater
type problem? Like how did you sort of sift through the options
available to you?
Andrew Dewitt: Yeah, no, good [00:13:30] question. I, I did, I knew I wanted to
study rivers and watersheds and there was a part of me that kind of thought about doing like river restoration work
at some point, because I knew that's, I knew that was a, a careers particularly out west and, in other, you
know,
regions. But I, I knew I wanted to.
Keep my options open. Right? I had some advice from others that said, listen, if you're, if you're studying water and you're studying sediments and you're studying our system processes related to those things, you're gonna have some pretty [00:14:00] broad opportunities. And, and to me, it made sense. And the other thing about river science that I love so much is that you can, like, you can watch it happen, right?
You can see what a river looks like before a flood and come back after a big flood event and, and watch how it changed and watch how, how that stuff happens on a human timescale and apply those things and those observations in that data on geologic timescale, which is also important.
So, so, yeah. I don't know if that answers your question, but that's, that was kind of my mindset. and I love rivers. I like to fish. I like to be on the water, you know, here in
Michigan [00:14:30] we've got a lot of them.
We've got a lot of
lakes and things, so, so yeah. That had
Dr. Jesse Reimink: I mean, there's something, Lakes are amazing, but there's something about moving water. I, I agree completely with you. That, and, and the time skills of, of, uh, change are. As you said, like totally obvious. And, we've been doing this, this series on Rivers, largely led by Chris, but, in part because it, they're super interesting and they're super impactful.
Everything from levies to, contamination to disappearing streams, all that stuff, like, it's super important to understand.
Chris Bolhuis: Okay, Andrew, that's awesome. Uh, I wanna put a pin in the [00:15:00] Fluvial geomorphology discussion and come back to it a little bit later on and talk specifically about maybe interactions between humans and rivers. So we'll come back to a more detailed, geologic discussion on, on that topic.
But before we do that, I wanna ask you about your job today. Like your job specifically. So can you describe your job? And then I'm really interested also in how your degree plays into what you do today.
did your degree prepare you for the job you do? Or if you had a
[00:15:30] redo, would you
perhaps pursue a different degree for
the job
that you do now? Does that make
sense?
Andrew Dewitt: Yeah, it does, it does. I'll kind of take it, take it in kind of pieces here.
So, my job today, I'm, I am one of two directors in the environmental group at a company called Atwell. Atwell is a full service, consulting, engineering and construction management company. I've been here for about three years.
Before I came here, I was at a global company, in an office based here in Michigan. I started off my career [00:16:00] doing, um, Field Geology and contaminated site management type work. So groundwater monitoring, soil sampling, remediation type work. I did that for a short bit and I had an opportunity after that to work on some pretty large and complex projects from a permitting perspective.
And I started off doing oil and gas permitting and impact analyses. And then from there we did some mining work, telecommunications work, and then slowly over time got more and more into renewables. So, fast forward now, I've been [00:16:30] at Atwell for almost, three years now, as in a, and now I'm a director here.
My day-to-day is frankly, spent a lot of time on the phone. I, I as director and you can ask my wife, she's like, do you ever not talk on the phone? Um, because I work from home. I work from home here, but, um, and she's off for the summer. She works at, at the school. But anyway, My job as director of our group is to make sure that we're staffing our teams, appropriately, that we're pursuing the right opportunities, that we're being strategic in terms of what [00:17:00] clients we wanna work for, what projects we wanna pursue, and just making sure that we're continuing to grow at a sustainable rate while at the same time giving opportunities to our staff.
So we're doing a ton of power and energy projects, primarily commercial scale solar projects, and also large scale wind facilities. I'm also working on, some offshore wind projects. Um, I started doing that when I was at my previous firm, but since I've come here, we've, we've been supporting another client.
So it's been, um, it's been a really rewarding experience. But my is [00:17:30] not in geoscience. My day to day now is in management,
leadership, and business development.
Chris Bolhuis: Okay. And what about your degree? So because you, it's not in geoscience, your degree is in
geoscience, you don't do geoscience. you had a do-over, would you do it differently, and if so, why or why not?
Andrew Dewitt: Yeah, I, I don't think I would, so you guys, you guys know me pretty well.
I don't
really have a lot of regrets. Um, I, I make the most of what I got. and I, um, I think that a geoscience degree is so [00:18:00] valuable. And, Chris, we talk about this with our summer science students, right? the skills that you develop as a geoscientist, in my opinion, and I'm obviously a little biased here, but in my opinion, are unlike a lot of skills that you develop in other, in other kind of lines of science, if you will. You know, we
are as geoscientists.
Chris Bolhuis: that? Yeah.
Andrew Dewitt: Yeah. So in we're collecting data, we're making observations in the field, and
sometimes we're asked to draw
conclusions that? are not always from point A to point B. Right. Sometimes there's things missing in our [00:18:30] data sets or things missing in our observation, right?
And so it's, it's really a, a delicate dance between science and art, And, um, I think the critical thinking skills that you develop as part of that process are really important.
Dr. Jesse Reimink: That's a, great answer. I mean, I, I like that a lot. but how, I guess, can you make it, can you expand on that from we have a lot of, uh, students or people who are just deciding whether they want to go get a degree in geoscience who listen to this podcast.
Can you make it more explicit? Like you and [00:19:00] I, we graduated at a different time, a slightly different time. Like, has it changed from your view? You're hiring people now. Do you value the geoscience degree, as you just stated, when you're looking at two resumes side by side, does it factor in and, and if so, how?
I don't know, can you,
speak to that a little bit?
Andrew Dewitt: Absolutely. Yeah. I mean, I, since I'm a geoscientist and I, because I said what I just said,
Dr. Jesse Reimink: Yeah.
Andrew Dewitt: a little
preferential
Dr. Jesse Reimink: Well, I feel this, I mean, I feel the exact same way and I think you're, I think you're right, but I just want to, I don't know. I don't know if
everybody feels [00:19:30] that way. And so
how do your colleagues who aren't Geoscientists feel
about these hiring decisions? I'm curious about
Andrew Dewitt: yeah. No, here's the deal. I'll be honest with you guys. Degrees are really important, right? Especially when we're talking about specialty kind of roles within the organization. That's really important, but sometimes not sometimes, almost all the time, more important to me. I mean, I interviewed, three people this week.
Last week I interviewed five people, we're constantly interviewing people, constantly growing. More important to me is, Passion, If people are passionate about what we do, that's huge. [00:20:00] If people are gritty, you know, if they can handle a little bit of adversity in their resumes or the conversations that we have, I.
Uh, kind of demonstrate that those things are really, really important to me too as a hiring, person. And then the last thing is, just, you know, speaking of resumes, right? Just demonstrating in a resume that you've done some things that are kind of above and beyond, whether it's volunteer work or whether it's undergraduate research, right?
Like most, colleges or universities don't require a lot of undergraduate research. But if I see a resume that shows that [00:20:30] someone has kind of go, gone above and beyond that says a lot. And so the advice that I give to young aspiring scientists is do those things. Do those things when you're young, do those things when you're a college freshman and sophomore.
and demonstrate and be able to talk about those things. And, and that goes a long, long way when it comes to hiring good people, because I'll take people who are gritty and passionate over someone, who may have the perfect degree from the perfect university with the best g p a imaginable, right?
Chris Bolhuis: Okay. I have a follow-up question
on this. cause I'm really interested in something. Andrew. I wanna know then, [00:21:00] like you were, and I deal with this a lot on the trip that we co-teach summer science. Okay. We have kids that are passionate about science and. What recommendations do you have then for people that want to go into a niche field? you have some strange hires. I mean, you hire BA biologists and you know, just really, really specialized people. What's your recommendation on people
looking for their
degree that want to then work in their degree, if that makes
[00:21:30] sense.
Andrew Dewitt: Yeah. So first of all, I think the first, and I tell this to our kids too, to our students, right? What, pick a field that you're passionate about, but also be understand that flexibility is important and just like it did for me, and just like it may have for, for you, Jesse, and certainly like it did for you Chris, like, when you're 17 years old, 18 years old, your idea of the future is much, different than what reality will be, right? And so my advice to those students is, don't be afraid of staying a little intentionally broad, don't be afraid of [00:22:00] change. Some people are like, if I, if I decide on one thing, I can never change my mind.
The reality of the situation is most of us are gonna have multiple jobs in our career. I mean, as educators, maybe that's not as, as true, but for the rest of the world, most people have three or four or five jobs, and that's okay. and as long as you're happy and you're doing what you're doing and you're, and making good choices, like, there's nothing wrong with that in my, you know, in my opinion.
I dunno, did I
answer your question?
Chris Bolhuis: I
think so. You're just saying, don't be afraid to follow what you want, but also don't be afraid to
leave it [00:22:30] broad. Uh,
Andrew Dewitt: Yeah, exactly. That's exactly right. And I knew, Chris, I knew that I wanted to be in Geology or, or science in some way, shape, or form, but I also knew that in order to have a, job in that field, I didn't want to pigeonhole myself. So studying water and sediment and studying the environment and things like that, and anthropogenic or human induced, causes of, of, change and disturbance, those are all things that I knew would apply to multiple different opportunities in the, in the job field.
And
so that's what I did. Right. So
that's my advice.
Chris Bolhuis: And your point too [00:23:00] about when you're 18 and not really knowing what you want, I mean, I knew one thing when I was 18 and that was that I did not wanna be a teacher. I, that was the last thing I was, and I was dragged kicking and screaming into this profession. so yeah, I didn't know anything when I was 18 years old.
Dr. Jesse Reimink: it's a great segue to, transit. I like, I have a question about the next step. So we've kind of been talking about like undergrad, how do you decide about undergrad degrees and stuff? How, this is maybe three parts, but I want to talk on graduate school a little bit. Like how did your master's degree serve you personally, [00:23:30] Andrew?
two, number two, how do you view PhDs versus master's degrees versus, one year master's, like applied master's internships? Like, how do you view those differently? And, three, like has that changed since you and I were going to grad school, do you think at
all? Because we
get, like, there's a, if a question's not long-winded, it's not
worth asking.
Chris Bolhuis: it's kind of like repeat after me. You have to keep it short when you're doing a repeat after me with [00:24:00] Andrew. You know,
it's like
Andrew Dewitt: Okay.
Chris Bolhuis: two word
repeats.
Okay.
Dr. Jesse Reimink: all day
talking to people.
Andrew Dewitt: I haven't, I haven't, I literally had 10 meetings today. It's just, it's bizarre. So anyway. No, I, I got your question. I was just gonna give you a hard time. 'cause man, that's a lot, that's a lot to
Dr. Jesse Reimink: That's, it's a lot. Yeah. Yeah.
it
it keeps it
Chris Bolhuis: question, isn't
it
Dr. Jesse Reimink: confusing.
Chris Bolhuis: doctory, he
Andrew Dewitt: that's
Chris Bolhuis: Welcome to my world, Andrew. He's
so doctory. Like,
Andrew Dewitt: You, you guys
Chris Bolhuis: it.
Andrew Dewitt: just tell me what you
wanna know. So one, all right.
[00:24:30] How has my degree served me personally? Well, it's
served me personally in the ways that we already kind of talked about. Yeah. My master's. So, excuse me, my, like I said, my undergraduate research, I started doing some work in Rivers and I'm like, Hey, let's continue this.
This is important for the reasons we already talked about. but also beyond that, I. my research assistantship and the funding that I got, it allowed me to work for an institute, right? Where we were consulting with different agencies and different kind of doing small projects on how you know, watersheds are impacted by different things, right?
So we did like [00:25:00] a study on how fields applied with biosolids could affect runoff water quality, for example. Right. And so we were doing, science around that and using that science to answer some pretty tough questions to inform some decision
Dr. Jesse Reimink: so, so, it sounds like that was kind of a linear, various steps a little bit between your master's, like some people, I guess if you did a, if you did a, uh, master's in Volcanology, would you be where you are today, do you think is kind of another, like how much does the degree, the title matter versus what you
did it in?
I suppose That's kind of
[00:25:30] what
I'm,
Chris Bolhuis: question.
That's a
Dr. Jesse Reimink: thank you, Chris. And short
Chris Bolhuis: Look at you. Go. I know. Well, it was and it was. Yeah. To the point. Yes. Go
Andrew Dewitt: Yeah. So to, to
answer that, that question
I think, which I think now is one B, and
I'll get to
to number two and then
number three after this. So speaking of linear linearity
here, so, that's a hard one for me to answer, and here's why. Like, I love volcanoes, but I never thought that I wanted to do like volcanology or [00:26:00] research.
I mean, you like research and volcanology, I, you guys have interviewed some really impressive people with some really impressive resumes on Volcanology.
I don't know that that was something that I thought was ever a, a, an option for me, and that wasn't really an interest from a career perspective for me.
Now
Dr. Jesse Reimink: not that
many volcanologists. There's not that many like professional volcanologists in the world, right? So like it's super interesting. It's like studying dolphins of ologists, like how many people in the world study dolphins professionally? There's probably a lot of people who want to go to grad school for it, but like
there's not a [00:26:30] big great career path for it.
So
Anyway, it, it's a
Andrew Dewitt: And that was, and that was It is, it is. And, and so, and that's a, and
that's why I
said earlier on, like, it's okay to be intentionally broad as an undergrad and even as a master's student, I can tell, I can tell you this, when I'm hiring for jobs and consulting, a master's degree is very, when I look at that on a resume, it's meaningful,
right.
Dr. Jesse Reimink: Okay. So it is, it is a
good degree to have.
Andrew Dewitt: it is it's a good
degree to
have. It shows that you've completed a process, right. It shows that you know how to collect data.[00:27:00] you know how to understand previous research, you know how to do science and you know how to write about it and communicate about it.
Chris Bolhuis: And you know how
Andrew Dewitt: as consultants.
Chris Bolhuis: as well.
Dr. Jesse Reimink: Yeah.
Andrew Dewitt: right. Yep.
Dr. Jesse Reimink: Yeah.
hold on. We haven't gotten even
to two yet. I mean, come on, Chris. Uh, one
c Are we
Chris Bolhuis: yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Let's go one. See? Yep, yep,
Andrew Dewitt: Well, well, two, two was how, what, how
you view a PhD versus a master's versus versus a
bachelor's. I would put some weight into a master's degree over a bachelor's degree for sure. Especially in our line of work.[00:27:30] and a PhD from my perspective is probably not needed. And here's the deal. And Jesse, Jesse and listeners, like, no offense here, right, but like people with a PhD are very specified, right?
They're very
specific in what they do
Chris Bolhuis: Andrew.
Andrew Dewitt: that's not what we do. They are
a
lot of things.
but we have to, we know your audience, Chris.
Dr. Jesse Reimink: I th I
Chris Bolhuis: we only
have
Dr. Jesse Reimink: I think what you're tr
Chris Bolhuis: house right now, and
Dr. Jesse Reimink: just come out and say it
overeducated. Just say
overeducated is the word we're [00:28:00] trying, you're trying to beat around the
bush here, but Yes,
you're
Andrew Dewitt: I. I don't know if that's the overed. I mean, the point is you do a lot of, you do a lot of things on your own, right? You have a team of folks that you're collaborating with. grad students, and you, you have students that are supporting you and other colleagues.
But like, in order for us to be successful in consulting, like we, we gotta have 10 people all rallying behind the same thing. And we gotta be able to do it and communicate it effectively. And, sometimes, again, no offense here, PhDs like they, they're focused on what they wanna focus on. And sometimes[00:28:30] those skill sets don't translate as directly.
Chris Bolhuis: That's right. It makes perfect sense. And I also wanna, I wanna put out there that I only like to pick on my doctor. Okay. And Jesse is my doctor. all the other doctors out there, you guys are awesome. But the one that I am, am most acquainted with is not so much and, and so, but he's mine. And so
Dr. Jesse Reimink: Really
Chris Bolhuis: this.
Yes, he's
Dr. Jesse Reimink: Yeah.
Andrew Dewitt: right.
Dr. Jesse Reimink: Good. Good qualification,
Chris?
Chris Bolhuis: [00:29:00] Yes. I,
Andrew Dewitt: So let me, Hey, let me get us back on track here.
So
the
question three was
Chris Bolhuis: What, what is question three?
Andrew Dewitt: would I change, would I change anything? Would I change anything about what I
do? And my
Dr. Jesse Reimink: No, no, no. The question was how
has
that changed since we went to school? Like how, question number three is how has, like, has it changed since you and I, you know, were applying to graduate school? Like, ha has the system that you're in changed in the last, you know, 10, 15 years and in the future, like give us a little bit [00:29:30] more forward-looking?
Or is it kind of, is a masters always gonna be useful from your view? or is it potentially changing? 'cause there's all these new degrees coming out. Like, I'm interested 'cause there's like earth and planetary science degrees that you can get a planetary se, science major, you can get a PhD in, you know, sustainability.
Like what,
Chris Bolhuis: look, Jesse, let
me interrupt you a second. Okay. Then let's just, let's change the question because who cares about what it was like when you guys came out? Let's just ask this question 'cause it's a really good question and just for time's sake, let's jump right to [00:30:00] that. the three of us, we've, we've talked about this in detail.
Whenever we get together, this kind of comes up almost always. And it is, you know, the geoscience brand has a lot of like, subsets to it, like sustainability, environmental science. We have hard up Geology. You have, geoscience, you have planetary science, you have hydrology. what are your thoughts about
all of these things? And you know, like, is there a best fit?
Dr. Jesse Reimink: it's,
It can be [00:30:30] very confusing and to the listener, like, it can be very, I get confused like, I'm in this industry, I watch departments be rebranded from Geology departments to planetary science departments to sustainability schools. Like it's confusing, like what's actually changing and what's actually new and what's different and how they compare to each other.
So I'm as confused as
everybody about this.
Chris Bolhuis: you know, I mean, you got Geology programs that are being rebranded into
geography
programs now. It's, it's, it is very confusing.
Okay. Andrew,
take the question. You have the
floor?[00:31:00]
Andrew Dewitt: Yeah.
So to me, and when I hire folks, like I just said before, it's a good question, but it's, and when I'm looking at resumes, it's not, it's not as important maybe as some people think. And I know that's hard for maybe hard for an educator to hear. It might be hard for a student to hear,
Dr. Jesse Reimink: No, I, I, can I interrupt with that? Can I interrupt on that, Andrew? 'cause I wanna, what advice would you want me to give students? Would it, would you, it sounds like your
advice might be just like, don't stress about it so much. cause that, [00:31:30] that would be
welcome to
me.
I don't really care what the degree is. Like, take
classes you're
Andrew Dewitt: Yeah, work hard. Exactly. Work hard, right? Be curious and find something you're passionate about. And you know what? So here's what 90% of the work that we do is in renewable energy. there's not a lot of degrees in renewable energy consulting. Like it, it's just doesn't exist. I mean, it probably does somewhere.
So, forgive me if I'm wrong there, but my point is
it's not as important to me. me knowing what I know about geoscience and what I think is still being taught in Geology [00:32:00] departments across the country, It's a solid degree that build, like it allows you, allows students to build a lot of great skills around problem solving.
And to me that's what consulting is. It's solving problems for our clients. It's helping them navigate complex regulatory environments. And that's not a cut and dried thing. So to me, less important is the specifics about the degree. And more important is the ability of somebody to demonstrate that they just know how to get stuff done And they know
how to think
critically in that respect.
Dr. Jesse Reimink: that's a great answer. I [00:32:30] really like that. And I think, you know, there's a lot of people, a lot of educators, Chris, I don't know way in here, but I, I, I feel like there's a lot of educators that are looking for guidance. 'cause the geoscience industry is sort of changing underfoot. Right. And I don't have my finger on the pulse of, where, you know, new
mineral lithium mining companies, what their concerns are.
Right. Like, so it's important to get this feedback, I
think.
Andrew Dewitt: Yeah. And let me be clear, right, like I'm not
doing geoscience every day, Like, I mentioned, and, and I don't have a whole slew of geoscientists on my, team, right? So this is just my opinion as a director [00:33:00] at a, you know, consulting firm. But, It. I think that there probably is a place for folks that are hydrologists.
There certainly is, right? Especially if you wanna do contaminated site management or look at groundwater interactions and with surface water or, mining waste and all sorts of like, there's, there are certainly needs for those individuals and those individuals should make sure that they're aligning their, class choices and their, their kind of degrees with, with what they kind of want to do.
my point is we're doing a lot of new stuff. We're doing a lot of stuff like, frankly, [00:33:30] when it comes to, renewable energy permitting, for example, there are certain jurisdictions that just don't even understand or have the sophistication yet to know how to get these job, to get these projects permitted, right?
There are townships and, and municipalities that have, have no ordinance for solar development. So this is all very, very new. So take that for what it is as well, and, and just know that it's pretty complex and so my opinions kind of reflect my experience,
Chris Bolhuis: that makes sense. Hey, I a, [00:34:00] I wanna throw something at you here, Andrew. So we're gonna call this halftime in this episode, and for the halftime show, I would like you to answer this question. What is your funniest Jesse Reimink story?
Dr. Jesse Reimink: Okay. No, we need to filter this very hard. I'm glad I have editing control
here.
Andrew Dewitt: Oh my goodness. funniest. Well, there's, [00:34:30] uh, so, so there were a lot of, there was, there was a time in high school, Jesse and I have known each other since what, third grade, Jesse. And
we were locker partners in fifth grade, and we didn't get real close until in high, until high school. I mean, we played sports together and things, but we didn't get real close until high school and until summer science.
But I think in high school there was a time. when you got mono potentially,
and we all know, we all
know that mono is the kissing disease
Chris Bolhuis: yes.
Andrew Dewitt: and
um, [00:35:00] and so I'm not gonna share too much more out of that, but there were some, funny, some funny things with Jesse and, and who he may or may not have been kissing in, in high school. And
Dr. Jesse Reimink: Oh yeah.
Andrew Dewitt: We'll
just leave it at that.
Dr. Jesse Reimink: Let, let's put it this way. There was a big family outbreak of, uh, of mono in the, at the, uh, at the Christmas, you know, the annual Christmas party, and a bunch of us were all laid up with mono in the, um, in the new year. I had to miss basketball games because of that. I remember being so pissed off I, and then I had to wear the, [00:35:30] uh, like the Kevlar pads.
Is it your kidneys that get inflamed with mono or something? Or you can't get
hit
Chris Bolhuis: Your yes, Or is it your liver?
Dr. Jesse Reimink: or your liver? One of them. I,
Chris Bolhuis: I can't remember. Yeah, I don't know. anyway.
that's really too bad that you're filtering so much, because I think I would appreciate some name drops here. Um, but,
you know, for, I guess so, I guess we'll, okay. Halftime is over. I think that was a good halftime show. Thanks, Andrew.
We appreciate that. Um, so back so let's talk about your specialty. [00:36:00] Andrew Fluvial geomorphology. I wanna talk about, or I want you to talk about some of the ways that humans have affected river systems.
Dr. Jesse Reimink: classifier here or qualifier here. Andrew, um, tread lightly. 'cause Chris has been
on the river and streams thing for like going on a year now. So you better tread lightly and say the
right
things.
Chris Bolhuis: Well, Andrew, I want, I want you to, I want you
to like lump me into the flu jaw morphology category. Okay. Like,
Andrew Dewitt: what this is
Chris Bolhuis: be an honorary [00:36:30] inductee to this?
Please?
Andrew Dewitt: for, a little bit.
Chris Bolhuis: So, alright.
Human interactions, you can throw dams into it, uh, whatever you want. But
let's just, let's get into that.
Andrew Dewitt: I, I mean, how much time, do we have? No, I'm,
Chris Bolhuis: We have as much time as you, I want, I
Andrew Dewitt: no, we don't, no, we, we don't have as much time, time
as I, so,
Chris Bolhuis: but you and I can talk
Andrew Dewitt: yeah. so, I
mean, there's so many different things. So, some of the obvious things are things like impervious surfaces, right? Impervious surfaces are surfaces that doesn't allow water to infiltrate, you know,
the ground [00:37:00] in a way that it otherwise would if that surface wasn't there.
So things like parking lots and shopping malls and, and neighborhoods and things like that, right? So the idea here is if you add more impervious surfaces to a watershed, that water that would normally hit the ground infiltrate into, the shallow groundwater and get to streams and rivers, right?
Instead that water may be more rapidly, diverted into a, a stream or a river, and that changes what we call the stream hydrograph, So the time between [00:37:30] a huge, or any type of rain event and the time that, a surface water body reacts to that rain event is different when imperfect services increase, right?
So that's just one example
Dr. Jesse Reimink: Hold on. Can I interrupt here? And and say, this is a, a strange thing that I'm gonna say, but I'm gonna pull you out of the weeds a little bit, Andrew, and make, can I, can I interpret what you just said there a little bit? Because Chris is usually pulling me outta the weeds, but let me just simplify it.
Really simple. And when a, a big storm hits usually, uh, in a natural way, the river will increase [00:38:00] gradually. So if you look at over time, the water flow, that's hydrograph. If I'm rem if I'm remembering back to my, uh, undergrad Geology days, hydrograph is like the, the river flow over time.
And so that'll increase gradually and decrease gradually. But what you're saying is with all these imperial surfaces,
it'll spike up.
Hydrograph will like spike up and you'll get more flooding. Is that one of the results here?
Chris Bolhuis: Oh my gosh. Okay,
hold on. So,
Andrew Dewitt: go ahead. Go ahead.
Chris Bolhuis: okay, Jesse, can we just say this then that all these impervious [00:38:30] surfaces cause water to get to the rivers faster, rivers flood more frequently? So we're having 500 year flood events way more frequently than every 500 years because in large part, because of all these impervious surfaces and water's getting to its destination much, much faster.
Andrew Dewitt: That works too.
Chris Bolhuis: Hey, there we go. What do you think, Jesse?
Was that better?
Dr. Jesse Reimink: Uh, it was the same I think, as what I said,
but you know.
Andrew Dewitt: maybe not better. No, but that's exactly right. You guys [00:39:00] are,
you guys are exactly right. And that has implications for how the stream behaves, what it looks like, right? You'll see streams in these environments that have abandoned their floodplains and they're very much incised because there's more
water than they're used to conveying that kind of stuff.
other examples, things, that humans have done to affect rivers are things like farming practices over human timescales, The Midwest of the United States looked a lot different, you know, 150 years ago, 200 years ago than it does now. And those land use practices, could change the way [00:39:30] rivers behave.
Things like deforestation, things like metropolitan areas where we have, flood walls, know, things like that. Those, these rivers can't behave the way they otherwise naturally would. So those are all sort of the physical ways that streams can, can kind of change based on human behavior.
Dr. Jesse Reimink: Can I ask a follow up then to this and what is your favorite river and what
is your, the most
interesting river you know of?
Chris Bolhuis: Ooh, that's a good question.
Andrew Dewitt: I, I've seen a lot of rivers. this is gonna sound like, [00:40:00] this is gonna sound like such a Andrew answer. This is
gonna sound like
you guys are gonna make fun of me for this. So here's the thing, So I did my master's,
thesis research on the James River in southwest Missouri.
it's not a super, I mean, there are certain portions of it that are absolutely beautiful, right? But it's not known to be a really pretty, really unique river. But to me it's special
because My wife and I got married, like, so we got married, We had almost no money, right?
We moved to Missouri and seriously, our [00:40:30] entertainment was like collecting data on my river, right? Like, that's what we did. And so it's, it's, it's special to me of that, um, and, Missouri Ozarks, those arks in general are really underrated when it comes to the river. I mean, there's the, the current river, the jacks for river, the Buffalo River, some of these wild and scenic rivers that frankly are really underrated, but absolutely beautiful.
We would spend a lot of time canoeing and kayaking these, rivers, and they're absolutely gorgeous.
Dr. Jesse Reimink: I mean, that's a great answer. answer. I feel the same way about the Acosta nice complex where I
did my [00:41:00] PhD.
They are ugly rocks, but they're they're special to me. They're
special and, okay, Andrew,
Chris Bolhuis: He's always gotta bring it back to Acosta. We're talking about rivers now. He brings
Dr. Jesse Reimink: no, I think we should talk
about
zircons and uranium led endocrinology, right? Isn't that the title of this episode?
Okay. and
Chris Bolhuis: no, Andrew, I'm not gonna make fun
of you for that answer because I so appreciate that answer. it's about, you know, the memories and, and connections that you have to that river.[00:41:30] and I think that's something that a lot of people can relate to, so, That's great.
Dr. Jesse Reimink: And is there an, a river, I don't know, most interesting maybe, or one that like if there's a news article about it, you're always gonna click on it,
either
locally, where you live
now, or like, you know, nationally or something. One you've worked on previously.
Andrew Dewitt: yeah, I mean the Yellowstone River is an, is an obvious one because we go see it every summer and last summer they had, what was it, Chris? A 500 year event. And it was absolutely devastating. And I think this past summer there was a, a train derailment that [00:42:00] had a spill into the Yellowstone.
And
I mean, the Yellowstone
River's absolutely gorgeous and it's very pretty and it's very
sensitive, ecologically as well. Um, and, and very unique geologically with the water, you know, falls and things like that, and Yellowstone Lake and stuff like that. So, I
Chris Bolhuis: Yeah.
Andrew Dewitt: the other one.
Chris Bolhuis: And it's
the longest damned river in the United States.
Dr. Jesse Reimink: new
new factoid. Uh, yeah, there we go.
Chris Bolhuis: that,
Dr. Jesse Reimink: on that note, let, let me ask, can I ask the next question, Chris? Can I take this one about kind of, uh, [00:42:30] about summer
science?
Chris Bolhuis: Yeah. Go.
Dr. Jesse Reimink: and I don't know the answer to this, Andrew. I'm very curious what your answer is. So you, you teach the summer science class, the one that we really became friends on and Chris was teaching it.
He taught us Geology out there. You now teach it with Chris. And I was shocked about this. 'cause if you would've asked me two weeks ago, how long have you been teaching it with
Chris? I would've said like two years maybe. And you told me it was six years. Is that right? Have you guys been teaching it six years together already?
Andrew Dewitt: It's been sixth. This was our sixth.
Dr. Jesse Reimink: Oh my goodness. Time flies. So you'd said before you wanted to be a [00:43:00] teacher, but you work in environmental consulting and you're moving up the ranks there and you're director now at Atwell. Like, what is the pitch when you were talking to Atwell and you're like, Hey, I need to leave to go out west for three weeks in the summer to teach high schoolers Geology.
what was your pitch to them like, and, and how did they receive that? Like, what was that conversation like? Because they're kind of, you know, there's some tension maybe like, you know, a job and, this teaching thing, which is great and
obviously an awesome opportunity, but like, how did that go and how do you
view that?
Andrew Dewitt: [00:43:30] So another 17 part question for me, but
I'll go, I'll, I'll, I'll, I'll, I know
So
I, I
Dr. Jesse Reimink: I
Andrew Dewitt: I can
answer it. So
here's the
deal. this is such an
important thing to me personally and to my family. summer science has been amazing. It's, it's really important to me. And so, you know, I've been with Atwell for almost three years now, but I've been doing summer science for six, right? So this was a discussion that came up during the hiring process. I made it clear [00:44:00] to them that this is something I don't want to give up, and it's something I'm really passionate about.
And I told 'em why, right? I'm interested in education. I'm interested in making a difference in students' lives, you know, these, these sorts of things. To them, it was an absolute no-brainer. So they actually, they encouraged me to do that. I have all the support that I need, but not only that, they, fund.
a portion of the program. So they, they donate dollars to our general fund. We give scholarships to students, who go on to pursue [00:44:30] degrees in fields that kind of align with what we do. we also, if there's a student in need, the trip costs $900 per year right now to, to, for the students to attend.
That covers everything, right? But sometimes there are students that, that aren't able to, to do that. And so we, we cover it for 'em. so the pitch was easy and the pitch is, listen, these kids are our future, right? They're gonna be our, our employees. They're gonna be our clients, they're gonna be our educators.
And Atwell understands that value and understands that importance. And so it was a really easy sell for me, frankly,
Dr. Jesse Reimink: and did [00:45:00]
Andrew Dewitt: lucky to have that
support. Yeah.
Dr. Jesse Reimink: were they easily sold?
Andrew Dewitt: Very
easily. No,
Chris Bolhuis: Which, Which, I wanna say is very interesting to me. It's, it's a touching thing actually for me. I, I get emotional just thinking about it. I, I love Atwell because of this thing. I really do. I mean, I don't think that there are a lot of companies that would jump on something like this and give that kind of support too.
It's not, this is support on so many [00:45:30] levels that it's hard for me to actually comprehend, I think the biggest thing that they give is they give you,
they're willing to, let you go. You do some work on the trip, you know, I do most of the bus driving and, and when we have internet coverage, you're working, you're doing things and so on.
But basically you're gone for three weeks and they give that, they give you up, which is a big give 'cause you're such an important guy, which I want to come back to in a second. But the other thing is the other [00:46:00] ways that they give financially. And it's, uh, hard for me to, to comprehend how much I appreciate Atwell for that support.
I mean, because I'm an educator, right? I mean, I, I pour into my students' lives every day and they're pouring in, in this way, which I think is, is
just a
really cool thing that's not very common in the world today.
Andrew Dewitt: Absolutely. And I, I couldn't agree with you more. I'm very proud to be there and it's a difficult thing, right? [00:46:30] You see me getting up early and staying up late to work when I need to. But the support that I also have from my amazing team they understand the importance too, the people that I work with day to day.
And that's, that, that's really, that's really meaningful too. People can chip in and pick up where I leave off on things or take things on, you know, and that's, that's really special. So it's, it is just a powerful thing all the way around. And
Yeah. it's an
honor.
Dr. Jesse Reimink: That's super cool. So have you, I, I just thought of this six years, that's long enough for, somebody to graduate high school, graduate college even, and [00:47:00] be maybe working in the field. are there people, I know Chris, there's people you've taught who, a lot of people that you've taught who have gone on to environmental, consulting
careers.
Andrew, have you seen that as well, since you've been to
summer science?
Andrew Dewitt: I have. Absolutely. Which is really, really fun. and we have interns at Atwell as well, so we've got,
this year we had
Chris Bolhuis: Yeah. Well, that's a part of what they
do. That's a part of what, that's an additional thing that Atwell
provides to this in terms of
support.
Andrew Dewitt: It is, so this year we had an intern, former summer science intern.[00:47:30] He did such an amazing exact job. It was really good to stay connected with 'em. And so, yeah, we see that. And then, I keep in touch with all these people and the letters, the letters that these students write to us and our leaders kind of after they've been impacted by this is actually a really, really special thing too.
Dr. Jesse Reimink: Oh, that's very cool.
Andrew Dewitt: lot of, it as
well.
Dr. Jesse Reimink: So, Andrew, can we just kind of come back a little bit? I wanted to come back a little bit to education, and you made a comment about staying broad and the fact that you got, remind me, was it a
geoscience degree. or an environmental science degree. or an earth?
I, I
can't remember what your [00:48:00] actually
undergrad degree was.
Chris Bolhuis: I.
Dr. Jesse Reimink: Geology
Okay.
Andrew Dewitt: So bachelor's in Geology with a minor in biology.
Dr. Jesse Reimink: and for staying broad, I kind of, students often struggle, I think with this, or at least I get questions about this. Like, okay, I'm getting a geoscience degree at Penn State. Like, what is a good minor to maybe have, and some people, you know, want to have the art history minor or the, the really random, uh, you know, one that they're just interested in, which it sounds like that's great.
is there a benefit to, keeping very broad in your opinion,
in that regard? And [00:48:30] both for you personally and for high for,
for, you know, students?
themselves. Other students?
Andrew Dewitt: Yeah, I, I think there are some bounds, there probably are some bounds around how broad to be like art in Geology, you know, not, there's very little overlap, but biology in Geology, certainly chemistry, certainly physics, right? Like, so
Dr. Jesse Reimink: And, and how in your biology minor did it, like it really functionally served you well? It sounds like it would, you know, your understanding like water and ecosystems, like they go [00:49:00] really hand in hand when you're talking about fluvial. Geomorphology, right. Chris? I mean, we just talked about
meanders and plants, they, they
interact really well, so
that makes
sense.
Would chemistry be the same in your
field?
Andrew Dewitt: I think so. I do, I do think so. And I, and, and
here's why. Because there's enough overlap where An understanding of chemistry helps you understand a lot about Geology, And about, magmas and things, right? But it also, the same is true with water quality, Understanding contaminant, migration, things like that. Those are all things
that overlap very nicely. Yeah.
Dr. Jesse Reimink: Okay, cool. [00:49:30] Chris, I, so I have a question for Chris. Maybe
Chris,
can I ask you a question?
Chris Bolhuis: Yeah. I would love to field the question. I think, I don't know
Dr. Jesse Reimink: Okay.
Yeah. Well, it's not about you. it's
It's, it's, not that stressful. Six years. I, I'm, I'm having trouble getting over the fact that you guys have taught together for six years. 'cause I remember very vividly when Andrew called me, he was like, Hey, Chris wants me to do summer science. How has Andrew
Dewitt
changed as an educator in six years,
Chris Bolhuis: Um,
Andrew Dewitt: Wow. Be careful. Be careful.
Chris Bolhuis: so, now I'm [00:50:00] gonna get sappy. So Andrew is really, really gifted. He could have been a teacher, he could have been a high school Geology, you know, geoscience teacher, and he would be phenomenal.
Um, like.
Dr. Jesse Reimink: than me teaching when I put students to
sleep really well in Yellowstone.
Chris Bolhuis: You do, you
really do?
No, Andrew does not. No, Andrew does not. Um, he does such a good job, and he always has, right off the bat. he was [00:50:30] very, very engaging, He has a gift and, but he knows this, I think for summer science, and I don't mean to put words in your mouth, but you're kind of scratching an itch too, that you have, You're very good at what you do now in you're professional day-to-day and all that. You're a great director for Atwell, but you would've also been a great educator. so he hasn't changed much over the course of the six years other than just simply [00:51:00] doing a class like this. You really have to know your stuff
and, you know, the longer you do it, the more you know.
so that's really it. You know, you're able to bring in more things and, and he brings in experiences from his profession too, which I think is such a cool aspect to Andrew and I working together in summer science. I do the historical Geology stuff. I talk a lot about how these places were formed over vast amounts of time.[00:51:30]
Andrew brings in the practical aspects. He talks about the keystone pipeline. He talks about renewables, he talks about careers, and so he is able to take the geoscience field and turn it into something that the kids can put their hands around and say, oh, so I really can do this as a job and, make a living and actually a really good living.
And so that's
what
continues to evolve. The longer Andrew [00:52:00] does
this.
Andrew Dewitt: That was long-winded,
Chris Bolhuis: Was it?
Was it, was it long-winded?
Andrew Dewitt: No, but thank
you.
Chris Bolhuis: hurt me
a
little bit.
Andrew Dewitt: I know, but I do appreciate that, Chris. Seriously. No more than
you know. I do. I
appreciate that. And you've told me
Dr. Jesse Reimink: Andrew?
Andrew Dewitt: I'm, Yeah.
Dr. Jesse Reimink: I mean, I'm curious about that, that that's, I mean, I, it's not surprising knowing you, but it's a little bit surprising 'cause I would imagine even with. My experience in the education field, I would have a hard time plugging into summer science easily, like right away. Like I'd have a hard time hitting the ground running on summer
science with high [00:52:30] schoolers.
It's just a different
you know, it's a different thing than a lot of things. So, Andrew, I don't know. Yeah,
Andrew Dewitt: yeah, absolutely. And Chris is spot on. I mean, this definitely scratches an itch for me. I, I could have continued to, to pursue a career in education, right?
Formally Long-term education and be a science teacher like Chris is. And so for me, I think it's, it's a way to kind of give back, frankly, to the students and frankly give back to the program that really helped shape kind of where I am today. And so that's a pretty, a pretty special and a pretty powerful thing.
But you're exactly right, [00:53:00] Jesse. Like, it wasn't easy that first year. I mean, it's, hard. And, and every year it's, it continues to be hard to stay relevant, right? To make sure you're updating your content and, and, and making sure you're, I. You're staying up to speed on, new things, whether it's new science or new technology or new opportunities for me in consulting Or
you know, things like that.
Dr. Jesse Reimink: slang. like what the
Andrew Dewitt: That's right. oh
oh my gosh. Oh my gosh. This year, this year was eye open this year.
Like the
the, dictionary, the dictionary that is being, you know, [00:53:30] written here is, is intense, but
it's, no, that's
part of it too. But, you know, like it's, it's really just a way for
me to, to scratch that itch, like Chris said.
And it's really a way for me to, to stay engaged and hope, hopefully have some impact. I mean, honestly guys, like you guys know me, I'm, I'm a sappy guy. Like, I really think that my purpose in life is just to. get the most out of people and to help people be the best that they can be and achieve their goals.
Right? And so whether that's a 17 year old student or a client that I work with, or frankly, the 65 [00:54:00] people that are on my team, like I just want people to achieve, achieve the best, Do the best they can. And this is a way to do that. So, uh, it's a powerful thing. It's a special thing.
Dr. Jesse Reimink: So on that
note, could you help Chris become the best podcast host he could possibly be?
Because
could you, like,
it's, we're three years in
Chris Bolhuis: Well,
Dr. Jesse Reimink: of work to be done here. I mean,
you know,
Chris Bolhuis: like what Jesse, first you go first. Tell me how to become a
better
podcaster,
please.
Dr. Jesse Reimink: a pretty
rambly answer to my question. I, [00:54:30] would've, I, I, I needed
Chris Bolhuis: Everything I, said was relevant and important.
Dr. Jesse Reimink: answer. I appreciated it
I appreciate it very much.
Technology.
Andrew Dewitt: Chris.
Chris Bolhuis: how to
become better
Andrew Dewitt: well, well, now I feel bad because I'm gonna say, no, Chris. Chris, you don't how I feel about you, man. I love you. I love both of you guys like, like brothers and beyond. I mean, Christopher, you do like to rant. Let's be honest. You are a ranter
and
Chris Bolhuis: what, what do I rant on?
Andrew Dewitt: you can be, you can be, long-winded sometimes,
and I know I can be too. [00:55:00] But the good,
here's the good news. The good news, Chris, is that
you've got a good editor.
Dr. Jesse Reimink: There's an edit button.
Andrew Dewitt: There's the edit
There's the edit button.
right?
Chris Bolhuis: Okay. All right, Andrew, I have a, I have a question. let's go back to Young Andrew, 18 years old, heading off to G
V S U. Would you have done anything
differently if you had that fresh start?
Andrew Dewitt: Yeah. Like
you guys know me. I don't really have a lot of regrets, you know? And Chris, I feel like you have the same mentality and part of [00:55:30] that, and me, frankly, probably comes from you just because of the influence you've had on both me and Jesse over the years.
Right. But like, I tend to, um, contemplate decisions a lot. And you know, this Chris,
like when we, I mean, when we decided, to build this house, this new house that we're in, right? I, it took me a long time to make some decisions there. When I decided to leave my previous company to go to Atwell, literally I was recruited for three years, and then Covid hit and things changed. [00:56:00] And even after I had an offer, it really, it took me a while. so I guess the only re some of the only regrets I have are just related to the timing that it takes me to make some decisions on some things.
but part of that's what also makes me who I am, you know, I don't know.
Chris Bolhuis: Yeah,
Dr. Jesse Reimink: Yeah, I
mean, that's a really interesting thing like people like, you you guys who, who don't really look back and have regrets. I mean, it's a, it's a great, character trait. are there decisions you didn't make or not decisions you didn't make, opportunities you didn't take, or opportunities you wish maybe [00:56:30] you hadn't taken that ended up kind of being a waste of time or something like that?
Like e even just kind of little things. 'cause I think, you know, as, as students and I, I still feel this way too, there's like so many different opportunities. You, you kind of have a hard time filtering through them and sometimes it's the, the decisions you don't make that are
quote unquote
regrets maybe or something like
Andrew Dewitt: Yeah, that's a good question. And Chris,
I, I would actually like your thoughts on this, but
for me, like The sum of that is like, you really don't know what you don't know. I could have had some really special opportunities had I [00:57:00] decided just as an example, right, to stay on campus at Grand Valley, right?
Maybe things would've been different or I would've had formed new relationships that would've kind of changed my trajectory or changed my outlook on things, but here's the deal. And I, I strongly believe this, like if you look back at decisions and think about what could have been, you could drive yourself crazy.
I just don't let myself go there. I'm a happy guy and that's a genuine thing. And, and I, uh, that's just the way I live my life, you
know? So, I don't know, I'm getting philosophical here again, but,
Chris Bolhuis: I [00:57:30] agree. I agree. I, I, I wouldn't answer that any differently. Um, because I think, you know, happiness to me is not about getting what you want, it's about wanting what you have. that's, that's, how I, I
feel I,
Andrew Dewitt: put that on a t-shirt. There you go.
Dr. Jesse Reimink: We're getting a Chris Bull heis t-shirt made with all sorts of stuff. Erosion happens. What was the other one? We just ca you, we just had Chris, it's hard to stop Geology or something like that. Was it? Was it? It's hard to stop
Geology. I think that's what
you
said the other day,
Chris Bolhuis: That [00:58:00] doesn't sound, is it really? I don't know. It
doesn't sound familiar. Uh, um, you know. Yeah. But I, I went into Grand Valley and, and fell into Geology, and that's the direction I went. And now I'm a teacher. Right. And I could have just done the easy route and. Gone right into earth science and teaching, and I would've been teaching when I was 22.
I didn't start teaching until I was 25. I don't think that I'd be as effective doing things like summer science or taken my Geology class on field trips [00:58:30] if I hadn't had those experiences myself.
plus I cannot imagine Chris Bull Heis as a 22 year old teacher. My gosh, I was not ready for that.
No, no. I needed a couple more years to, to like mature a little bit. And so yeah,
I
wouldn't change it either,
so,
Andrew Dewitt: And here's the thing too, just real quick, just, on the
education part and the public education piece, to me it's so important. Like I've been so deeply impacted by, Chris, right.
And other teachers and [00:59:00] coaches that I had in high school that have really helped me and guided me in ways that have kind of made me who I am today, frankly. Right? And so that's part of the kind of giving back thing with education. but also for me, you know, I was, I was on the Education Foundation board in our district for a few years.
Now I am on the school board. I've been on the school board for a year. To me, like just giving back to the community, giving back to the students and really helping people find the best in [00:59:30] themselves and kind of influence that is something that's really important to me. that's why I love consultant, you know, being a consultant because I get to do that, but I also get to lead people, manage people.
There's the science side of what we do. There's the financial side of what we do. There's the management side. It really scratches a lot of those different niches. It's not just science, it's not just people management. It's not just finances, it's everything.
And to me it's a very, it's a
really rewarding career.
Dr. Jesse Reimink: every time you talk about it, it sounds like a, a really sort of a great career and a great career for you, and a great career for, for [01:00:00] really any, I mean, most people, but, uh, rewarding for sure. So, Andrew, before we wrap it up, we always end our interviews by asking what
has been your best day as a geoscientist?
Andrew Dewitt: You guys know me, I'm gonna have a few of 'em. All right. So,
Dr. Jesse Reimink: Okay. Sit down. Sit down,
Andrew Dewitt: yeah. So, so here's the thing. So the first one was before I was a geoscientist, right. But it was, we touched on this before. It's when I decided I wanted to be a geoscientist. So going back to this, you know, the hike that we did up [01:00:30] to Little Devil's Tower when I was 17 years old on the summer science trip.
I knew then that this is what I wanted to do. I don't do exactly Geology every day anymore, geoscience every day anymore. But I certainly use the tools that I learned through that experience to, to hopefully be, be good at what I do now. Um, so that to me, the, the view there, up there, the way it affected me, I think is, is one of 'em.
It's, it's probably at the top of the list, but also is the fact that just a few years ago,[01:01:00] my two little boys and my wife hiked up to the top of little devil shark with me at night. And to bring them to the place that really impacted me, you know, at that time was really special too.
it's just a cool
thing.
And then the second one, I think honestly, like, if I'm being totally honest, was six years ago when Chris called me and I remember exactly where I was. Chris doesn't call me often during the day because I, he knows I'm usually on the phone, right. But he called me at like two o'clock in the afternoon and I was like, oh, I better, I better answer this, right?
[01:01:30] So I answered it. I walked over, this is open office space. We were on the office, this is before, well before Covid obviously. I answered it. I said, Hey, gimme a second. I'm gonna walk to the conference room. I walked to the conference room, I stood the corner of the conference room looking out the windows.
It's, the windows are all glass. And he was like, Hey, I know you're busy, but uh, I got a quick question for you. And I'm like, okay, what's up? He's like, Do you want to teach summer science with me? And I was like, Christopher, I have no, I have like no idea [01:02:00] how I'm ever gonna get three weeks off of work or how I'm gonna be able to do that with my job and with my family.
I mean, Jackson, my youngest was like one, how are we gonna make this work? And my answer was, I don't know for sure how we're gonna make this work, but yes, I wanna do it. And I said, we'll figure it out. So that's number two. and then I think number three for me was, this is the last one by the way.
So
number three for me
is when I
was fairly new in my career at my previous company, one of our senior partners walked up [01:02:30] to my desk, same company that, you know, where I took the phone call from Chris, right? years later, he walked up to me and said, Hey, I'm working on. The Keystone XL Pipeline Project, and we need some help.
And this was like six months into my career after, my master's, right. And he's like, would you be interested in helping us out? And I was like, wait, like Keystone xl, like the Keystone xl, like the project that we see numerous news articles about, yada, yada. He's like, yeah. My answer was, was, yeah, I, I'm [01:03:00] happy to help.
Right. And that opportunity from
him and Frank, I didn't even report to him at the time. I later did because we were working so closely. But that opportunity, I. That came from him, really, I think, catapulted me into my career in terms of leadership and complex projects and managing people.
And before I knew it, I was going to Washington, DC to meet with the State Department, like what seemed like every other week. it really opened up some doors for me and, uh, I worked my butt off and, got lucky in doing so. And, uh, that really helped me in my career progression. So [01:03:30] that's my long-winded, uh, Chris Behe esque, uh, answer to your question.
Dr. Jesse Reimink: Well, those are three very excellent ones and
I, you know, say yes to, to opportunities, even if they're a little unsure of what they might be or how it
might work.
That's
great advice.
Andrew Dewitt: And you guys like, I, I gotta say this, I
gotta say this real quick. I'm gonna cut you off again here, Jess. Sorry. we've known each Jesse, we've known each
other since we were like, what? Third grade, second
grade, something like that. Chris,
Dr. Jesse Reimink: what? How old are you in that? 10.
How old
is
an eighth
Andrew Dewitt: Whatever. [01:04:00] I should know. I should know because I have
one not nine, 10. Yeah.
Whatever. Anyway, and Chris, we got to know each other right? When I
was a,
a track athlete on your track team. but like I think that this podcast is just a, I gotta say it's just a super cool, you guys can edit this out if you want, but this is just a such a cool opportunity for people to get to know you and get to know a little bit more about Geology and also, something that's I think really powerful that's influenced a lot of people.
So you guys know what I think about you and I think that this podcast is a special thing.
And I tell Jesse this, well, I've told you this too, [01:04:30] Chris, when I'm traveling for work and I put my earbuds in and I listen to you guys, it feels like I'm hanging out with you. You know, like it feels like we're hanging out. And then I get a phone call from one of you and I'm like, guys, I feel like I've just been talking to you for two hours.
You know, like,
Dr. Jesse Reimink: Oh
Chris Bolhuis: Yeah. Then, then you don't
want to talk to us when we call. You're like, I
don't wanna talk to you right now. you.
know, I've
Andrew Dewitt: I
dunno.
Chris Bolhuis: two hours
with you. I'm
Andrew Dewitt: Yeah, Yeah, yeah.
So thanks, thanks for having me on.
I, don't know
why it's taking three years for me to be on, but thanks for inviting me finally.
Um,
Dr. Jesse Reimink: I know. I
know th well, thanks [01:05:00] for coming on.
Chris Bolhuis: We, to be fair, this right here was good and this is a good interview. You're awesome. Jesse and I are just really grateful that you agreed to give up some of your time and, and be
Dr. Jesse Reimink: yeah,
thanks for coming and, uh, and,
giving us an hour, hour and a bit of your time, man. Appreciate it. And
always good to talk to you. Always good to see your
face.
Chris Bolhuis: Yeah,
Andrew Dewitt: We'll see you again soon,
Chris Bolhuis: yeah.
Andrew Dewitt: soon.
[01:05:30]
